currently to move a physical light you can either
A. type in the numbers (which is great but not when its like .000 of a movement, and middle mouse wheeling is always wayyyy too much)
B. use the 'Move' uh.. tool/feature/option (?) and click on the red, green, and blue (xyz) and drag. this is awesome and my preferred way of doing this but I wish there was a way to do this without having to change my view. The light is usually out of the frame and therfore those arrows are also out of the frame, so to move them this way you have to change your camera.
HDR light studio (And the hdr editor) are both awesome because its a second window that you can just move the lights around in and see real time in your camera whats going on. basically i want that control but with the physical lights. so I don't know if keyshot would need a second window or how exactly to go about this.. But basically some more user friendly version of B. would be awesome ;D
Can't you save the view prior to moving your light?
Agreed. We will see what we can do.
yes thomas but then you can't really see what your doing with the accuracy you need. its like you might as well paint your hdrs in photoshop too.
Also being able to 'see' the camera would be great...
J
Like this... ;)
In KeyShot you are always looking through the camera. I'm not sure how this would apply.
Thomas points out something that we all tend to forget. KeyShot IS a camera, unlike other rendering apps. On a real set we compose and frame in the viewfinder or on ground glass, and don't (or shouldn't unless by cropping choice) see the lamps. When you dolly the camera in KeyShot, you are physically moving the camera, not the model. So you really have to zoom out to see real lamps, then back in for the shot. That's why it's often important to save either the camera or viewset before backing out. I do both, camera first, then adjust multiple environments, saving each as a viewset. So I just don't see how it would be possible to implement your request.
Bill G
I understand what metal master is getting at. If you set your camera view and then decide you need more lights or to position scenery you switch back to free cam and set view to an ortho type like top, left, back etc, but then you have no 'precise' reference as to where your saved camera view is within the top view or any other view.
Martin
Lol, I don't mean being able to see the camera in the 'main' or Perspective view, but in the Left, Right, Front, Bottom and Top. Or if this cannot be done how about having two different operating modes in KeyShot, 'Render' and 'Scene Navigation' ?
A button could be clicked to jump into Navigation mode, which would put KS in performance mode, change the camera view to top etc, show a ground grid, show the working camera and then allow you to select an object in 3D space and move, rotate and scale it.
Because at the moment it is a nightmare to set up a complex scene in KS and Martin is correct, there are little if no frames of reference.
J
I mean I dearly love KeyShot and all of it's little idiosyncrasies... but you've gotta admit that the current system of navigating a 3D scene is counter-intuitive.
I think you should adopt the system described above... and pay me royalties ;)
Anyway, just out of interest, and I'm asking this with the greatest of respect ;), but Thomas and Speedster - I don't know your backgrounds, but have you used 3D software that has the now (almost) standardized four view viewport system ? - if you have then you must know that moving from that to KS's way of doing things is extremely difficult to get used to !!
I'm not some young whippersnapper you know, Im old (48) and set in my ways... ;)
J
I wouldn't necessarily call a 4 view viewport system "standard". Maybe for some applications, but certainly not for CAD applications. This being said, I can see where it could come in handy to have multiple viewports, though.
It seems to be a trend, as most of the novel standalone renderers have adopted the single viewport 'seen through camera' approach.
Most of the time this works perfectly fine for me. There are times though that another viewport (or should I call it another 'frame of reference') would be a life-saving feature.
F.i. navigating small interior scenes is very cumbersome right now. Of course you can fiddle with manual camera coordinates (which does help a lot, compared to KS3!), but these numbers do not necessarily make much sense. They relate to the origin of the scene, but how do you know how far the camera is positioned from walls/floors?
KS does indeed work like a camera and I like that very much. However, in real life, it is you as a person who is holding the camera. The camera's y-position is 'linked' to your body length. You have your body as a reference to the world and it is much easier to twist your head and jump from one corner to another than doing the same thing in KeyShot. :)
So sometimes, a small 'performance mode' 3D viewport of the scene with visible and moveable camera would be very handy. Maybe it can be integrated in the camera tab?
Dries
QuoteI wouldn't necessarily call a 4 view viewport system "standard"
It seems to be the de facto standard in general 3D modelling/rendering applications, all of the ones I've ever used or have knowledge of use this approach
Cinema 4D
Lightwave
3DS Max
Modo
Maya
Softimage
Rhino
Blender
Moi
Silo
And that list is by no means exhaustive ;)
The only one I can think of that doesn't is ZBrush.
Although, you could be correct regarding CAD packages, I have little or no knowledge of those
But I'm not saying that KS should adopt the '4 port' approach, but just have a more intuitive way or navigating and organising scenes
J
We will see what we can do.
Metal Master:
QuoteI'm not some young whippersnapper you know, Im old (48) and set in my ways...
No offense taken. For whatever its worth, I'm 66, and have been a self-employed product designer, prototype modelmaker, toolmaker and plastic injection molder for 40 years this year, but almost 50 in my profession. Including little projects like the model of the Polaroid SX-70 color camera, Pacemaker, etc. Four years of photography in college, but with no regret I just sold may favorite 4x5! I have focused entirely on product design, mostly medical device, using SolidWorks, since 2001, and Industrial Design and CG since 2008. Two time winner of the SolidWorks International Design Competition and a SolidWorks presenter, my work has been featured in five magazine articles, with three as cover stories, including ASME's Mechanical Engineering and Desktop Engineering, and was one of the earliest adopters of KeyShot, back to when it was under another company. Also a Diamond Level artist on TurboSquid. I also use Modo (sort of).
I apologize for tooting my own horn (which I seldom do), but you asked. I am most definitely
not set in my ways, as every day I learn something new and valuable, often from this Forum. Also, I believe that Thomas is listed as co-inventor of KeyShot, but he can toot his own horn if he wishes. I know him as one of the sharpest guys in the CG industry.
But this is not a pissing contest! You raise a valuable idea that may be well received, especially now that KeyShot is being adopted as the render-of-choice by many CG studios and leading design houses, and across multiple platforms and genre. I for one would find it most useful in rigging a lighting setup, especially if it was linked to HDR Light Studio, which I use constantly, augmented by HDR Edit. Like a "Preview Window" that you could pop up when needed.
But it's just not a high priority for me. With KeyShot I can now do in minutes what takes hours in other dedicated or internal rendering apps, and frankly, with better results.
But it's also feedback and input from professional users such as you and I, and the other Forum members, that has guided and helped elevate KeyShot into the preeminence it now enjoys. And I rank your work right up there among the best!
Last thought, sort of added to yours- I'd love to see the move widget stick itself in the middle of the viewport, and allow zoom etc. without it going off-screen.
Bill G
www.GouldStudios.com (http://www.gouldstudios.com)
QuoteNo offense taken. For whatever its worth, I'm 66, and have been a self-employed product designer, prototype modelmaker, toolmaker and plastic injection molder for 40 years this year, but almost 50 in my profession. Including little projects like the model of the Polaroid SX-70 color camera, Pacemaker, etc. Four years of photography in college, but with no regret I just sold may favorite 4x5! I have focused entirely on product design, mostly medical device, using SolidWorks, since 2001, and Industrial Design and CG since 2008. Two time winner of the SolidWorks International Design Competition and a SolidWorks presenter, my work has been featured in five magazine articles, with three as cover stories, including ASME's Mechanical Engineering and Desktop Engineering, and was one of the earliest adopters of KeyShot, back to when it was under another company. Also a Diamond Level artist on TurboSquid. I also use Modo (sort of).
Wow... you have been and still are a busy guy by the sounds of it - had no idea you were 66 !! how about that... I own a Modo license as well, use it mostly for building HDRI stages.
QuoteI apologize for tooting my own horn (which I seldom do), but you asked. I am most definitely not set in my ways, as every day I learn something new and valuable, often from this Forum. Also, I believe that Thomas is listed as co-inventor of KeyShot, but he can toot his own horn if he wishes. I know him as one of the sharpest guys in the CG industry.
Toot as loud as you can, that's my motto, because it's a rare occasion when it gets tooted for you !! you're correct about this forum, it can be a source of interesting titbits of knowledge and inspiration (in fact, looking at your website has inspired me this morning ;) ) As for Thomas, he's a nice guy, never knew he co-invented KeyShot though, that is news to me. I always thought he was in his 20's for some reason, until I saw his grizzled mug on a photo ;)
QuoteBut this is not a pissing contest! You raise a valuable idea that may be well received, especially now that KeyShot is being adopted as the render-of-choice by many CG studios and leading design houses, and across multiple platforms and genre. I for one would find it most useful in rigging a lighting setup, especially if it was linked to HDR Light Studio, which I use constantly, augmented by HDR Edit. Like a "Preview Window" that you could pop up when needed.
Now that sounds handy, and again you've hit the nail on the head concerning KeyShot's exposure in different CG sectors... When I first started using it (2010) it seemed to be the choice renderer of CAD users, but it has definitely broken free of those shackles...
And yet again you're right about KS's speed an agility when it comes to rendering, it has no real competitors to be honest...
QuoteBut it's also feedback and input from professional users such as you and I, and the other Forum members, that has guided and helped elevate KeyShot into the preeminence it now enjoys. And I rank your work right up there among the best!
I'm lost for words really, that's such a wonderfully uplifting, kind thing to hear Bill, thank you... I, myself have learned oodles from fellow forum members, especially in the CAD disciplines which I had little or no knowledge of before.
QuoteLast thought, sort of added to yours- I'd love to see the move widget stick itself in the middle of the viewport, and allow zoom etc. without it going off-screen.
Now that is one of my dreams when it comes to KeyShot
J
Hey, em3d, I want to apologize, and I'm sure I speak for Metal Master, for hijacking your thread!
We all agree that moves and views need to be easier and more intuitive. As is, almost all translation and rotation sliders are just to coarse for precision control. And keeping widgets on the screen regardless of zoom is really critical with larger assemblies.
Bill G
"... almost all translation and rotation sliders are just to coarse for precision control. And keeping widgets on the screen regardless of zoom is really critical with larger assemblies."
I agree. I often have the widget go partially or completely off screen and wish there was a shortcut to center it on screen.
The widget is good for rough adjustments and I then use the position/rotation fields to fine tune. But rotation fields jump in 45 degree increments, and the other fields are sometimes too course (I use the mouse wheel to scroll the numeric fields). I'd like to see an option to hold down a key (while scrolling the numeric fields) to decrease sensitivity by a factor of 10.
There are cases where high positioning precision is required. For example, when rotating a diamond ring, there is usually a very narrow "sweet spot" where the lighting makes the diamond come alive. Very hard to do using just the widget.
Ed
A cool way would be the option to target lights to a specific object and have a shortcut option to move them around, it's absurd to zoom out the scene to move the light an inch, because 99% of the time you want to check the impact on your model without moving it out of place.
It would help for big scenes and animations.