I'll post my interior done with a newly updated system running Ks6. There are 2 pics here. One is raw and the other is post worked. Obviously the soft glow one is post. It's a scene I made a while back with maxwell. Everything is 95% close to the maxwell scene. From the sun and light plane locations along with the intensity values. Oh... also material colors rgb's are dead on. The 5% difference is the bed sheet color. If allowed I'll post the maxwell render so the comparison can be seen. For the meantime, check out the KS output. It is beautiful.
It's a nice scene for sure. I actually am a fan of the raw render though, if I'm allowed to choose a favorite.
Quote from: willgibbonsdesign on November 15, 2015, 11:33:41 AM
It's a nice scene for sure. I actually am a fan of the raw render though, if I'm allowed to choose a favorite.
True. But..... all the best renders out there have post work.
Admin, I'm waiting on a go ahead to post the maxwell pic.
Quote from: syrom on November 15, 2015, 12:44:33 PM
Quote from: willgibbonsdesign on November 15, 2015, 11:33:41 AM
It's a nice scene for sure. I actually am a fan of the raw render though, if I'm allowed to choose a favorite.
True. But..... all the best renders out there have post work.
Admin, I'm waiting on a go ahead to post the maxwell pic.
That for sure syrom, all best renders have postwork..less or more but all have it, in everywhere, in every forum..so i never saw problem using postwork.
..
Quote from: slater on November 15, 2015, 03:37:05 PM
Quote from: syrom on November 15, 2015, 12:44:33 PM
Quote from: willgibbonsdesign on November 15, 2015, 11:33:41 AM
It's a nice scene for sure. I actually am a fan of the raw render though, if I'm allowed to choose a favorite.
True. But..... all the best renders out there have post work.
Admin, I'm waiting on a go ahead to post the maxwell pic.
That for sure syrom, all best renders have postwork..less or more but all have it, in everywhere, in every forum..so i never saw problem using postwork.
..
To be honest, I've only come across dislikes on post work on this for forum. Everywhere else, seems like its expected.
Anyways, I did some more tweaking on it to match my other maxwell render. Its at about 98% exactly as maxwell and to my great surprise, I think KS comes really close with the new interior setting. I had doubts about it earlier when I was seeing some interiors from others. But now that I spend all day playing with it and understand it. ... its actually a real improvement. Now... the 2% I'm lacking is fur! My original maxwell has a 2x4 wow fur mat. Well.... i can't find anything on KS that will generate that lush fur. Anyone found a solution?
Quote from: syrom on November 15, 2015, 10:30:40 PM
Quote from: slater on November 15, 2015, 03:37:05 PM
Quote from: syrom on November 15, 2015, 12:44:33 PM
Quote from: willgibbonsdesign on November 15, 2015, 11:33:41 AM
It's a nice scene for sure. I actually am a fan of the raw render though, if I'm allowed to choose a favorite.
True. But..... all the best renders out there have post work.
Admin, I'm waiting on a go ahead to post the maxwell pic.
That for sure syrom, all best renders have postwork..less or more but all have it, in everywhere, in every forum..so i never saw problem using postwork.
..
To be honest, I've only come across dislikes on post work on this for forum. Everywhere else, seems like its expected.
I'm all up for post work as I know a lot of others in here are, but I got to say that in this case I also like the raw better. I think the post looks a bit too soft. But that is just a personal opinion.
When that is said I think the result generally is really great. It's most definitely in my personal top 5 of KeyShot interiors.
QuoteTo be honest, I've only come across dislikes on post work on this for forum. Everywhere else, seems like its expected.
You can do as much post as you want, personally i prefer no post especially when beta testing renders and or comparing render engines. What you apply in post tends to be to an individuals own tastes and disguises what could be render engine faults/limitations. Adding things like light rays and bokeh effects is far more acceptable as KS can't do these things. Just my 2c.
Other than that the raw render is great and you could have possibly have got a better result just from using Bloom settings
Martin
I don't think people in general are against post. But there is a difference between subtle (to improve realism) and overdone. There are a lot of examples in the different forums where artists go post-crazy.
Your raw render is great. The second render is obviously post, even without mentioning it, and in that regard an example of too much...at least for me.
Quote from: TpwUK on November 16, 2015, 01:26:40 AM
QuoteTo be honest, I've only come across dislikes on post work on this for forum. Everywhere else, seems like its expected.
You can do as much post as you want, personally i prefer no post especially when beta testing renders and or comparing render engines. What you apply in post tends to be to an individuals own tastes and disguises what could be render engine faults/limitations. Adding things like light rays and bokeh effects is far more acceptable as KS can't do these things. Just my 2c.
Other than that the raw render is great and you could have possibly have got a better result just from using Bloom settings
Martin
100% Agree! I'm still dabbing in ks, wasn't aware of bloom. I will try it!
Quote from: ErtanK on November 16, 2015, 01:59:19 AM
I don't think people in general are against post. But there is a difference between subtle (to improve realism) and overdone. There are a lot of examples in the different forums where artists go post-crazy.
Your raw render is great. The second render is obviously post, even without mentioning it, and in that regard an example of too much...at least for me.
Lol! And that's a subtle post! You7 should see the other one i made. Is like your on acid.
Well damn. I was going to go ahead and post the maxwell render with the more accurate ks render I just did last night. Didn't realize I didn't upload the maxwell to my device. I spent another 3 hours getting everything exactly to match the maxwell scene. Rgb, light specs, geometry location and so on. The good news is, KS can indeed be used for interior design. It almost matched the maxwell quality. And a bonus, didn't require a over night render like maxwell does. Ks6 does indeed have a better sss control aswell. Im loving it. Only one issue is preventing me from fully adopting ks as my primary interior render though. The fact that you have to work on the real time window. Even switching to geometry mode isn't really that helpful. I wish they would implement the geometry mode as a direct option and eliminate the real time when needed. Great example is when you want to move a object and you have the geometry window side by side with the real time, you can only grab the object in the real time render window and not on the geometry side. Hopefully the next version on KS will have this sorted out. Lots of my scenes have millions of polygons , so even putting it in Performance mode, its really low fps.
Performance mode should give very good performance with as many polygons as you can have in memory. If this is not the case then it would be great if you could share the scene with support, so we can look at any issues you may be experiencing.
Also, you can import fur into KeyShot 6 from 3ds max, Maya, cinema4D, and fbx.
Quote from: KeyShot on November 16, 2015, 07:36:27 PM
Performance mode should give very good performance with as many polygons as you can have in memory. If this is not the case then it would be great if you could share the scene with support, so we can look at any issues you may be experiencing.
Also, you can import fur into KeyShot 6 from 3ds max, Maya, cinema4D, and fbx.
Hey keyshot, Performance mode does help but only a tiny bit. I go from like a crazy 3fps when in product mode to maybe 9fps on performance mode. Isn't this normal for most people but varying on pc specs? And I'm talking about having a scene with over 1 million polygons. If its just 1 simple object, the system runs fine and over 30fps.
So..... on the original topic. Here is the results. Both scenes are identical expect the keyshot is missing the floor carpet mat. All rgb's identical. All light emitters as close as i could match them but same hue and same position. Both images are RAW [no post]. Enjoy.
One question. Jpeg is heavily compressed. I can see the numbers on the clock on the maxwell but not on the keyshot. What is the best file format in keyshot fir the least compressing?
Love the comparison. Not viewed them as full sized, but from what i can see, I prefer the lighting of Maxwell coming through the window, but I prefer the shadows and smoother looking finish of the KeyShot render.
You can only set the compression for jpg and png files via the preferences for screenshots, however I don't know if those preferences carry over to the main render engine though :-\
Martin
Quote from: TpwUK on November 17, 2015, 04:19:45 AM
Love the comparison. Not viewed them as full sized, but from what i can see, I prefer the lighting of Maxwell coming through the window, but I prefer the shadows and smoother looking finish of the KeyShot render.
You can only set the compression for jpg and png files via the preferences for screenshots, however I don't know if those preferences carry over to the main render engine though :-\
Martin
Agree..... maxwell does have better lighting. I was thinking maybe it has to do something with the bounce? I don't know. But not bad though, KS can be used for interiors now. Also, thxs for the info on the compression.
Any expert can shed some light on the compression issue? I'd you download both the ks and maxwell, zoom in to the small clock on the table. Notice how much sharper the maxwell is? How can this be remedied?
Another issue I encountered was soft shadows created by the invisible planes. Seems like the invisible planes themselves are interacting. If you put planes near a wall they actually create a shadow even though you select not to emit shadows. Only solution i found was to put yet another invisible plane right behind it with a very low wattage to lite up the shadow. Is this a bug?
Also, took 1 hour to render clean. Maxwell took over 8 hours and it still has grain. Ks site is FAST!
Quote from: KeyShot on November 16, 2015, 07:36:27 PM
Performance mode should give very good performance with as many polygons as you can have in memory. If this is not the case then it would be great if you could share the scene with support, so we can look at any issues you may be experiencing.
Also, you can import fur into KeyShot 6 from 3ds max, Maya, cinema4D, and fbx.
Where would I upload the scene? And do i just select the bip file and load it? Or is there a procedure?
QuoteWhere would I upload the scene? And do i just select the bip file and load it? Or is there a procedure?
If it's less than 50Mbyte then post it on this thread, if not then use keyshot.wetransfer.com and send to support@luxion.com - It might be prudent to FAO it to Henrik and link back to this thread.
Martin
Quote from: TpwUK on November 17, 2015, 01:00:35 PM
QuoteWhere would I upload the scene? And do i just select the bip file and load it? Or is there a procedure?
If it's less than 50Mbyte then post it on this thread, if not then use keyshot.wetransfer.com and send to support@luxion.com - It might be prudent to FAO it to Henrik and link back to this thread.
Martin
Thxs!
Quote from: syrom on November 17, 2015, 12:30:48 PM
Also, took 1 hour to render clean. Maxwell took over 8 hours and it still has grain. Ks site is FAST!
That is pretty impressive.
QuoteAnd do i just select the bip file and load it? Or is there a procedure?
Save it out as a package (.ksp). Then you are sure everything is included.
Quote from: Esben Oxholm on November 17, 2015, 01:30:04 PM
Quote from: syrom on November 17, 2015, 12:30:48 PM
Also, took 1 hour to render clean. Maxwell took over 8 hours and it still has grain. Ks site is FAST!
That is pretty impressive.
QuoteAnd do i just select the bip file and load it? Or is there a procedure?
Save it out as a package (.ksp). Then you are sure everything is included.
Thxs for the info!
Looks really nice!
I'm probably quite biased here ( :) ), but I think the KeyShot image looks better.
The shadows look more natural, softer.
In the Maxwell image there is some 'glow' around certain geometry. F.i. around the white cubes on the back wall, where they touch the wall. They seem to float a little.
If you want to share the ksp, I'd be happy to accept it through keyshot.wetransfer.com (https://keyshot.wetransfer.com).
You can send it to my mail: dries@luxion.com.
As for the compression issue...
JPEG images get compressed after upload. So if image quality is of the essence, then PNG is your best option.
Dries
Quote from: DriesV on November 18, 2015, 01:11:10 AM
Looks really nice!
I'm probably quite biased here ( :) ), but I think the KeyShot image looks better.
The shadows look more natural, softer.
In the Maxwell image there is some 'glow' around certain geometry. F.i. around the white cubes on the back wall, where they touch the wall. They seem to float a little.
If you want to share the ksp, I'd be happy to accept it through keyshot.wetransfer.com (https://keyshot.wetransfer.com).
You can send it to my mail: dries@luxion.com.
As for the compression issue...
JPEG images get compressed after upload. So if image quality is of the essence, then PNG is your best option.
Dries
I know what you mean, that glow. I'm suspecting bounce of the shader is more dramatic inside maxwell compared to the Shader inside ks. I like both honestly, both have pros and cons. The ks one is way more cleaner I'd you ate going for that. I tried to get the bump to match the maxwell bump on the comforter, but no matter how high i set it. ..it didn't pop out like it did in maxwell. As for your compression analysts. ... I will correct your thought. Even before uploading the maxwell is still sharp compared to the ks. Trust me, i tried fixing it by looking at all options in KS, even png. But nothing really helped it. I suspect its the method in KS dies the rendering? I put both files side by side before any uploading btw.
I'll gladly share this scene and do what ever you want really. When i get home I'll send it over. Anyone can have the file to study it.
One huge improvement maybe in the next ks 7, please consider making the geometry mode a option to fully work in! Lol. s Much as i like the real time render.... it bogs down with huge scenes. Geometry mode is smooth as butter. Plus. . My eyes are used to working within geo mode.
One thing i did try to fix was the amount of glow in the shelve next to the window. It's more natural i think on maxwell. I increased the watts on the ks emmiting plane but then i was getting to much light all around the room. So 40watts was the highest i could set it without having the render come out too bright.
Nice work here. I didn't mean to ruffle feathers in my first reply. As was reinforced by everyone here, post is really personal pref. so it's easier sometimes to give feedback with little to no post. Your rendering here is great and I appreciate your comparison. It's nice to get that perspective!
Quote from: willgibbonsdesign on November 18, 2015, 05:56:19 PM
Nice work here. I didn't mean to ruffle feathers in my first reply. As was reinforced by everyone here, post is really personal pref. so it's easier sometimes to give feedback with little to no post. Your rendering here is great and I appreciate your comparison. It's nice to get that perspective!
No harm done at all! I personally always do a little post work on my interiors to add that angelic soft dreamy glow. And not too much of course. I'll give away this scene here so Pele can study it and show some more interiors. I'm very impressed with the speed. Its like maxwell on bathsalts. :p
I actually would prefer a blend of the post and non-post image as there is too much bloom for my liking... but nice results
Since your a Maxwell user like myself, have you tried a 'flash' shot yet ? I think they look ultra-cool in Interiors :)
J
Quote from: syrom on November 18, 2015, 07:54:00 PM
Quote from: willgibbonsdesign on November 18, 2015, 05:56:19 PM
Nice work here. I didn't mean to ruffle feathers in my first reply. As was reinforced by everyone here, post is really personal pref. so it's easier sometimes to give feedback with little to no post. Your rendering here is great and I appreciate your comparison. It's nice to get that perspective!
No harm done at all! I personally always do a little post work on my interiors to add that angelic soft dreamy glow. And not too much of course. I'll give away this scene here so Pele can study it and show some more interiors. I'm very impressed with the speed. Its like maxwell on bathsalts. :p
Also, I want to mention, a friend of mine asked me yesterday if I knew anything of Maxwell (I do not) and he's trying to convince his company to buy KeyShot (because I'm always yammering on about it). I sent him this thread. It's kind of a great and fairly non-biased comparison, so again, nice write-ups.
This is impressive.
Just a hint regarding the Geometry mode, i assume you are talking about the "performance mode"?
KeyShot 6 pro comes with the geometry view.(shortcut: "O")
Try to un-dock the Geometry view window and place it over the realtime window and scale it to match the size.
To switch in between geometry view mode and reatime mode just pres "shift+P" and then "O". This will pause the realtime view calculations and show the Geometry editor. Also this enables you to navigate in the geometry editor independent of your realtime camera(if you deselect the active camera in the geometry view) I could navigate and edit a +700000 polygon model this way, without any trouble.
Note: you can get the Move widget to show in the Geometry view if you right click the part in the geometry view and choose move part.
Tada you can now edit you geometry fast even though you have a big model.
Quote from: Despot on November 19, 2015, 12:42:07 AM
I actually would prefer a blend of the post and non-post image as there is too much bloom for my liking... but nice results
Since your a Maxwell user like myself, have you tried a 'flash' shot yet ? I think they look ultra-cool in Interiors :)
J
Oh man... those are hyper realistic. I did one a few months ago and came out really good. I would post the image but it's not right to brag about render here. Its a small kitchen scene. But I haven't thought of attempting that with keyshot. Maybe import the whole scene and just apply the materials and see the results. That will be my next project. Currently working on a dodge viper car, it's looking nice. Someone posted their car render using ies lights. Came out real nice. Personally never really used them so it's going to be a learning experience.
Quote from: willgibbonsdesign on November 19, 2015, 04:55:06 AM
Quote from: syrom on November 18, 2015, 07:54:00 PM
Quote from: willgibbonsdesign on November 18, 2015, 05:56:19 PM
Nice work here. I didn't mean to ruffle feathers in my first reply. As was reinforced by everyone here, post is really personal pref. so it's easier sometimes to give feedback with little to no post. Your rendering here is great and I appreciate your comparison. It's nice to get that perspective!
No harm done at all! I personally always do a little post work on my interiors to add that angelic soft dreamy glow. And not too much of course. I'll give away this scene here so Pele can study it and show some more interiors. I'm very impressed with the speed. Its like maxwell on bathsalts. :p
Also, I want to mention, a friend of mine asked me yesterday if I knew anything of Maxwell (I do not) and he's trying to convince his company to buy KeyShot (because I'm always yammering on about it). I sent him this thread. It's kind of a great and fairly non-biased comparison, so again, nice write-ups.
Well thats good to hear this thread has become useful. I'm a big fan of realistic shots, that's why I migrated to maxwell. Originally started using vray but found it rather too complicated with a gazzillion settings. Then I tried Brazil rs, if anyone remembers that one. Learned it well but sadly got dumped by the company and does not exist no more. Finally, saw some incredible flash renders on maxwell and immediately jumped on board to master it. But like most people know about maxwell, it takes looooooong to render. It's better on v3 but still can drive you crazy. All my interior renders on it are overnight renders. Finally, i cane across KS by just browsing the Web for rendering farms. It claimed to be ultra fast and decided to check out the gallery. I was looking for hyper realistic renders and saw a few good renders. What hooked me was a youtube video showing a bike with a green background being rendered with ks, and saw how fast it was. So I inquired and found my co worker has V5. Used it and now I'm hooked. So now , just trying to push the limits on it and see if it can match the best work I have done. So far is holding is own.
Quote from: Niko Planke on November 19, 2015, 07:42:00 AM
This is impressive.
Just a hint regarding the Geometry mode, i assume you are talking about the "performance mode"?
KeyShot 6 pro comes with the geometry view.(shortcut: "O")
Try to un-dock the Geometry view window and place it over the realtime window and scale it to match the size.
To switch in between geometry view mode and reatime mode just pres "shift+P" and then "O". This will pause the realtime view calculations and show the Geometry editor. Also this enables you to navigate in the geometry editor independent of your realtime camera(if you deselect the active camera in the geometry view) I could navigate and edit a +700000 polygon model this way, without any trouble.
Note: you can get the Move widget to show in the Geometry view if you right click the part in the geometry view and choose move part.
Tada you can now edit you geometry fast even though you have a big model.
Oh wow! Thanks for the tip. I'll try that technique. I used the geometry view but didn't really find it useful since I wasn't able to work within in.
QuoteThen I tried Brazil rs, if anyone remembers that one
I remember that one ... It's now a render plugin solution for Rhino, but not sure if it's still actively developed :-\
Martin