KeyShot Forum

Technical discussions => General discussion => Topic started by: pizzalover2 on May 08, 2016, 12:52:01 PM

Title: I can't find the best water bottle shape / HDRI / material for this image
Post by: pizzalover2 on May 08, 2016, 12:52:01 PM
Hello!

I'm tring to recreate a image in Keyshot but I can't achieve the style and environment.
Does the shape matters a lot or just the HDRI and material does the the job in this scene?
Also there's a problem with my render scene because it looks right in Keyshot (with HDRI enabled) but when I render the image out it looks bad (on any type of background. See image:
(http://i.imgur.com/hHr4HiU.jpg)

This is the image I want to achieve (I know is not even close):
(http://i.imgur.com/oZEz0ng.jpg)

Any tips/ways to make this similar to the bottle image?
Title: Re: I can't find the best water bottle shape / HDRI / material for this image
Post by: DriesV on May 09, 2016, 04:51:31 AM
The main problem here is that your bottle is a big chunk of solid geometry.
The solution is to model the bottle with accurate thickness, as it would be in reality. Furthermore, there are some things you need to consider when rendering bottles with liquids. This requires some preparations on the CAD/modeling side.
Let me explain with a simple example...

I used this GrabCAD model (https://grabcad.com/library/bottle-boeco-500ml-1) as a basis.
In SOLIDWORKS I altered the geometry, so that the resulting model has:
If you want accurate results for bottles with liquids, then you should always do this preparation step in your modeling software.
(I attached the SOLIDWORKS model I prepared.)

In KeyShot, you can then apply Dielectric materials to the three surfaces. You will need to tweak the 'Refraction Index' and 'Refraction Index Outside' to get accurate results:
I attached the KeyShot scene for you to pick at. ;)

Dries
Title: Re: I can't find the best water bottle shape / HDRI / material for this image
Post by: Esben Oxholm on May 09, 2016, 06:43:05 AM
Very nice illustration on how to split the different surfaces and how the materials for them should be set up, Dries. Cool!

A have nothing to add to this :)
Title: Re: I can't find the best water bottle shape / HDRI / material for this image
Post by: Finema on May 09, 2016, 09:03:00 AM
Hi,
I use this technique often, but i choose glass and liquid material instead of Dielectric material. That appears more normal to me to render glass+liquid.
Why are you using Dielectric material ?
Thanks.

Title: Re: I can't find the best water bottle shape / HDRI / material for this image
Post by: DriesV on May 09, 2016, 10:19:40 AM
Hi Finema,

The dielectric material is a bit more flexible. E.g. you can set surface roughness and internal roughness (Roughness Transmission). It can add some nice subtleties to the appearance of your bottle or liquid.

Dries
Title: Re: I can't find the best water bottle shape / HDRI / material for this image
Post by: pizzalover2 on May 09, 2016, 12:46:30 PM
You are awesome, DriesV!

I have one more question, If I want to have the bottle empty, I need to apply the 'Blue surface: Dielectric material. Refraction Index = 1.5' (glass) or I should remove it from the scene?
Title: Re: I can't find the best water bottle shape / HDRI / material for this image
Post by: DriesV on May 09, 2016, 12:57:44 PM
OK. Thought this would look better with red juice. ;D

Dries
Title: Re: I can't find the best water bottle shape / HDRI / material for this image
Post by: DriesV on May 09, 2016, 01:02:36 PM
Quote from: pizzalover2 on May 09, 2016, 12:46:30 PM
You are awesome, DriesV!

I have one more question, If I want to have the bottle empty, I need to apply the 'Blue surface: Dielectric material. Refraction Index = 1.5' (glass) or I should remove it from the scene?

For an empty bottle, you don't need to split the geometry. In that case you can just apply the bottle material (the 'Blue surface' material).

Dries
Title: Re: I can't find the best water bottle shape / HDRI / material for this image
Post by: pizzalover2 on May 09, 2016, 02:14:49 PM
Quote from: DriesV on May 09, 2016, 12:57:44 PM
OK. Thought this would look better with red juice. ;D

Dries

Mind sharing the scene file of the red juice? The floor looks realistic!
Title: Re: I can't find the best water bottle shape / HDRI / material for this image
Post by: DriesV on May 09, 2016, 11:47:38 PM
Quote from: pizzalover2 on May 09, 2016, 02:14:49 PM
Mind sharing the scene file of the red juice? The floor looks realistic!

Sure. The scene is attached.

Dries
Title: Re: I can't find the best water bottle shape / HDRI / material for this image
Post by: hugo on May 16, 2016, 01:53:33 PM
This appears to be the perfect place to add to this subject. Adding a pencil into the bottle or glass of water.
I have been interested in a How To: KS Refraction of light in water.  The subject gets even more technical  if the pencil has lettering on it below the surface of the water. :)
Title: Re: I can't find the best water bottle shape / HDRI / material for this image
Post by: Finema on May 16, 2016, 10:25:55 PM
hi,
here a test in Keyshot >
you can see it's the same as in a real life
Title: Re: I can't find the best water bottle shape / HDRI / material for this image
Post by: hugo on May 17, 2016, 05:57:06 PM
Quote from: Finema on May 16, 2016, 10:25:55 PM
hi,
here a test in Keyshot >
you can see it's the same as in a real life
Very nice Finema! Would you be so kind and post the file, so I can explore your procedure.
Title: Re: I can't find the best water bottle shape / HDRI / material for this image
Post by: Will Gibbons on May 18, 2016, 07:54:59 AM
Quote from: Finema on May 16, 2016, 10:25:55 PM
hi,
here a test in Keyshot >
you can see it's the same as in a real life

Fantastic example! Thanks for sharing.
Title: Re: I can't find the best water bottle shape / HDRI / material for this image
Post by: DMerz III on May 18, 2016, 05:02:08 PM
Bookmarking! I know this gets broken down pretty often here on the forums, but this is by far the best thread for this situation yet. Love the visuals.

Title: Re: I can't find the best water bottle shape / HDRI / material for this image
Post by: hugo on May 20, 2016, 12:07:26 PM
Quote from: DriesV on May 09, 2016, 12:57:44 PM
OK. Thought this would look better with red juice. ;D

I agree your original reminds me of what you leave with your Doctor for analysis!  ;D
Great example !

Dries