Been working with glass to try to refine wayz to make it look realistic. I grabbed this bottle model and started in with the intent of first creating a clear glass version (the way it is in real life). Once this one is done, I want to mess around with converting the glass to frosted. Looking for any comments, reactions, suggestions about this one.
couldn't be better
amazing work!
Quote from: dhkkdhkdhk on February 10, 2017, 09:46:37 PM
couldn't be better
amazing work!
Amazing yes, but I think you could do better with some gradient backround in here :)
Beautiful render! I especially like the surface tension meniscus detail on the liquid inside. +1 with Nils on the gradient background. Also, I have found that enabling NURBS mode when rendering glass with any curvature makes a marked difference in the reflection/refraction quality and realism. Yes, it takes longer to render, but with glass I think it is definitely worth it. Great work!
Cheers,
Eric
Great suggestions! Really appreciate them. With respect to the gradient background. When I tired on in KS, it creates some unpleasantness in the glass and liquid. Kinda like putting a black card (or other color in the scene). Were you thinking of this in PS? If you could be more specific, that would help.
Hey Mike-
I'm guessing you were trying to use a gradient image as a backplate(?). Backplate images can definitely produce some undesirable "card-like" reflections/refractions, especially in studio product type shots. One alternative would be to add a Backdrop Ramp to your scene and apply a Color Gradient node to the Diffuse channel, with the Gradient Type set to View Direction. You can control the look of the gradient with the color stops, and also with the scale and Translation Z values of the Backdrop Ramp geometry. To keep the gradient parallel to the horizon, Set the Rotation Y value of the Backdrop Ramp to the difference between the camera Azimuth value and -90. This will keep the Backdrop Ramp perpendicular to the camera view. For instance, in my example scene the camera Azimuth value is -65, so the Backdrop Ramp Rotation Y value is set to -25. I've attached an example render and a link to the KSP file. Let me know how this works for you.
Link to KSP file: http://bit.ly/2kF3GZN
Cheers,
Eric
Hey, Eric--thanks for that tip. Will give it a try! Should work well.
Mike
Quote from: imikej on February 11, 2017, 02:18:35 PM
Hey, Eric--thanks for that tip. Will give it a try! Should work well.
Mike
Sure thing, Mike. You're welcome. Let me know how it works out for you.
Cheers,
Eric
I want to thank Nils and Eric for their suggestions. Especially, large thanks to Eric for taking the time to tell and show and provide a KSP. The KSP was most helpful. I've re-worked the image and I think achieved a much better result. Interestingly, I can't render this with NURBS. I'm suspecting it is because I modified the model. Still looking for reaction, comments and/or suggestions. Thanks again Nils & Eric.
There is a clear improvement from the original image to this one. Only thing that bugs me a little is that the edge on the left is kinda merging with the background, so a tiny bit of contrast there would be nice. What material are you using on the cap ? It looks really good.
Thanks, Nils. The cap is split with the top being different, so that I can put the gradient of light across. Here is a screen grab of the rest of the cap. Happy to share detail if you want more info.
Like Nico said, I the left shoulder of the glass blending into the background is distracting for me. Otherwise, pretty cool. I think it might be worth playing with some other colors on the background ramp too. Like, keeping it in the cool spectrum to contrast with the liquid and cap. Nice so far though.
Quote from: imikej on February 12, 2017, 11:31:21 AM
I want to thank Nils and Eric for their suggestions. Especially, large thanks to Eric for taking the time to tell and show and provide a KSP. The KSP was most helpful. I've re-worked the image and I think achieved a much better result. Interestingly, I can't render this with NURBS. I'm suspecting it is because I modified the model. Still looking for reaction, comments and/or suggestions. Thanks again Nils & Eric.
Hey Mike-
Definitely looks much nicer. Glad to hear the KSP was helpful. You're quite welcome :) What file format is the geometry?
Cheers,
Eric
Re. file format. I brought the .MAX file into 3ds Max and exported it as a BIP. I smoothed a couple of parts. But, I also exported just a straight export (no smoothing). The liquid was one piece, so I edited the geometry in KS to separate the top surface. That may have made it so I couldn't render NURBS?
Quote from: imikej on February 13, 2017, 02:37:14 PM
Re. file format. I brought the .MAX file into 3ds Max and exported it as a BIP. I smoothed a couple of parts. But, I also exported just a straight export (no smoothing). The liquid was one piece, so I edited the geometry in KS to separate the top surface. That may have made it so I couldn't render NURBS?
Ahh...ok. If it was modeled in Max, then it doesn't have any NURBS information to render. Perhaps increase the iterations of the turbosmooth modifier to smooth out the glass corners a bit more (?)
Cheers,
Eric
Finished this project for now. The initial intent was to create the replica of the real thing and then make a frosted glass version of it. Here are the two final images. If you want to see our write-up and process steps, we've created a Behance gallery: https://www.behance.net/gallery/48880687/Our-CGI-Process
Looks great, Mike!
Cheers,
Eric
Quote from: bdesign on February 11, 2017, 06:26:59 AM
Also, I have found that enabling NURBS mode when rendering glass with any curvature makes a marked difference in the reflection/refraction quality and realism.
Really? I had no idea. Gonna have to test this. I tend to avoid NURBS since it tends to slow my mid-range computer down.
Oh, and the shot: Looks great!
Cool on the frosted one! I haven't seen much frosted glass on products in KeyShot.
I think it was Will that was looking for a bit more contrast. I treated the sweep with a bit more drama. Interested in thoughts, reactions.
Cool, Mike!
Although I would reduce the drama a tad. Maybe keep the reflection in the front part of the ramp while adding some roughness to back part to tone down the sharp reflections there :)
I think there's a happy medium between the before and after! I'd be interested in how it looks after trying Esben's suggestion.
Esben's suggestion seems like a good one. Here it is implemented on the gold image.
Yes! That looks great!
I wanted to take this one step farther and do something that would make you want this perfume. Before we tried to stay true to the packaging (cap, silk screen, etc.). Here we etched the glass and one of our former partners-in-crime chipped in a 18k gold cap. While we've missed Valentine's day, any day is a good day to give ...Versace. Would appreciate any thoughts comments (on the render). (If I had it to do over, we'd spend some time and re-model the bottle. Not super happy with the way this geometry suited us.)
All of these looks super! Really like the depth you manage to bring to the glass/liquid on the final image there.
I'm just curious; what differences would you make to the geometry to enhance it if you remodelled it?
To Magnus re. model. So, this is a store-bought model. There are several things about it that make it difficult to work with. The way the glass was shaped and the liquid, reduces the flexibility we have to manage the refractions. The big thing is that the model needs to be smoothed. When we do, because we don't have native files, the model gets really ugly. These are all non-technical terms that essentially mean the model was crap. I sure hope it wasn't your model.... :)
Last one is definitely better, from the cap material to the glass reflections. Way to push this scene. It's really hard to keep working on the same thing over and over but you've managed to improve this way too far. Congrats for the persistence.
NM-92–Thanks! And, thanks for your help. Forum was a big help on this project. Spur'd me on. Can't rest until you get something worthie.
Hi Mike.
Gold, materials and lighting looks way better on the newest one. Unfortunately I didn't notice until I read NM-92's comment as my eyes were busy trying to figure out what was going on on the ground and in the back. Honestly I think it looks a bit 90's or something with that wavy (water?) surface :) . However, I also acknowledges that this is probably a matter of taste and I'm a guy for minimalistic stuff. I think a clean, almost matte background ramp would help sell this product - to me at least 8)
Not trying to be harsh. Just giving my honest thoughts.
Quote from: imikej on March 01, 2017, 06:13:28 PM
The big thing is that the model needs to be smoothed. When we do, because we don't have native files, the model gets really ugly.
Hey Mike-
You mentioned earlier in this thread that the geometry is a 3DS Max model. I've downloaded Max models before and, when trying to smooth them further with a Turbosmooth modifier, they get wonky. What I've found that works sometimes is to go to the Modify tab, go into vertex mode, select all vertices (ctrl-a), then, under the Weld section, set a low tolerance value (try .01 to start), and click the "Selected" button. After welding the vertices, applying the Turbosmooth worked as expected, with clean results. Crank those iterations as high as you like :) Let me know if this works for this model.
Cheers,
Eric
Quote from: imikej on March 01, 2017, 06:13:28 PM
To Magnus re. model. So, this is a store-bought model. There are several things about it that make it difficult to work with. The way the glass was shaped and the liquid, reduces the flexibility we have to manage the refractions. The big thing is that the model needs to be smoothed. When we do, because we don't have native files, the model gets really ugly. These are all non-technical terms that essentially mean the model was crap. I sure hope it wasn't your model.... :)
Ah, first of all, it's not my model no! I haven't dived into polygon modeling yet, so bad tesselation is your typical NURBS challenge:)
Secondly: I see what you mean now. Saw this on my phone yesterday. I see the issues more clearly with the high res one. That said, it was neatly covered up in the frosted versions!
Thanks, Esben. I like your minimalist style a lot. It has a certain feel to it. Not sure that goes with VERSACE, which screams something "else." This was an experimentKS tools in every way. So, the end result is visually a bit more complex than it would likely be, had it been done for a client. Your point is a good one though. Not sure I have the energy to re-work it "minimalist." :)
I think the valuable takeaway here is... if you need a glass/transparent object, it may save you some headaches if you just model it yourself. Especially with it often being a simple object. Geometry heavily affects reflection and refraction.