Hi guys,
I'm doing an image for a project where I wanted to show a beer bottle. The image below is my first attempt at doing glass with a liquid inside with Keyshot. In the past, with another rendering program, I was able to achieve a pretty good effect of seeing through the glass and the liquid.
In this case, I'm struggling. I used the tinted glass and changed the color to a brownish tint. And for the liquid, I used the Beer option. I tried other glass too. Solid, two sided. I even used materials from the old Hypershot library.
While what I did is passable for what I need, I'd be happier if I could get some more transparency in the liquid. If I turn off the bottle, the liquid renders great! But it needs a container of course. :D
It seems the glass is making the liquid turn dark. If I use clear glass, the liquid turns white, even though I'm using the Beer material for the liquid.
I'd also like to learn how you guys do the condensation on the surface of the glass. That would add that one thing to the image to hit the spot.
Thanks for any advice!
(http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/3016/beerbottle.jpg) (http://img641.imageshack.us/i/beerbottle.jpg/)
Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)
Hi Nelson,
Nice beer bottle model you have there!
You need to render with more ray bounces. looks like you rendered with 1 or 2....
Thanks Predator.
I tried upping the Ray bouncing as you suggested, it was set to the default setting of 6 or so. It did give me some more small little reflections inside, but not what I was hoping for.
did you enable "detailed indirect illumination" ? (under realtime tab) (the realtime tab has effect on the normal render process)
And please do render with the normal render and not with the "real-time render" (disable that box under "Render">"render options")
if you cannot get it to work, send your beer bottle model to me, and I will set it up for you.
Thanks for the offer of help Predator.
I actually did start to play with the Realtime tab. That and some other adjustments got some pretty good results. I'll try to post an image this weekend.
I never really understood the Realtime tab. Perhaps I can find a webinar video on it. I thought it had more to do when the renders are rezzing up "Realtime" as you are setting up the scene and applying materials and adjusting the view before you actually do the render.
Looking at the neck of the bottle, it looks like the liquid reaches the outside of the glass bottle - almost like the glass has no thickness, if you know what I mean.
Best of luck - show us the finished article!
@Jhiker:
It indeed looks very thin, but keyshot has the unfortunate problem that if you have 2 transparent materials "touching" each other (in this case: the liquid and the bottle) it "clips". One has to create a very small tiny gap between the 2 materials.
That's probably not the case here, but maybe the egg-shaped bubble could be evidence of this (or it was created intentional by Nelson)
@Nelson: please upload the picture of your bottle when you have rendered it once again! (cant wait)
Quote from: PredatorKS on April 01, 2011, 01:06:54 AM
@Jhiker:
[...] but keyshot has the unfortunate problem that if you have 2 transparent materials "touching" each other (in this case: the liquid and the bottle) it "clips". [...]
This is not a KeyShot problem, and has nothing to do with transparent material. When 2 surfaces are on top of each other you will always have a display problem. A small gap is always recommended.
Look for Jeff M's wine glass example. It shows how to properly break up the model, and what parameter values to set for each material.
I know it has nothing to do with transparent materials, but it's the situation in which this "problem" excels...
If other render-programs have the same problem, then I take back my words.
Hi everyone, thanks for chiming in. And thanks Thomas. I'll do a search for Jeff M's wine glass example. Hopefully I can find it!
I actually deliberately have the liquid going into the glass by about an eighth of a millimeter. But in this case, it sounds like for it to work best in Keyshot, I should have done it the opposite so there is a tiny air gap between the glass and the liquid.
And I will post my results.
Ideally you should just have one surface for where the liquid and glass meet. This is what you'll find in my wine glass, and take a look at the IOR settings of the materials on the various surfaces.
The wine glass is included with KeyShot 2.1 and later.
There's also a beer glass post in the gallery thread that has some discussion about proper glass/liquid rendering.
Thanks Jeff!
I've read and re-read the wine glass posting and studied the bip file. That was very helpful to learn about the liquid/glass interface surface. Not what I expected!
So here's what I did based on the learnings:
(http://img860.imageshack.us/img860/7659/beerbottle04022011a.jpg) (http://img860.imageshack.us/i/beerbottle04022011a.jpg/)
Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)
And I just watched an episode of Mad Men, so here's to Don Draper. By the way, the HDRI is the Luxion conference room. (http://img812.imageshack.us/img812/6827/tumbler1a.jpg) (http://img812.imageshack.us/i/tumbler1a.jpg/)
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Thanks again for the help!
And here's an attempt at condensation, I need to get the scale better:(http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/5178/beerbottle040220111a.jpg) (http://img88.imageshack.us/i/beerbottle040220111a.jpg/)
Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)
This looks much better! well done!
Great - starting to look really good.
Thank you guys for the advise and tips! Thanks again for the help Thomas and JeffM's threads on the wine glass and the Glass/Liquid adjacent surface thread.
I'd appreciate any more critiques of the images just posted, where I could improve. I don't like the multiple shadows, for example. Thanks!
Quote from: Nelson Au on April 02, 2011, 10:11:20 PM
And here's an attempt at condensation, I need to get the scale better:
Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)
Hi Nelson!
Wow it is impressing!
Can you please share with us materials from Keyshot?
I'm late to the party - but I'll raise a glass to that..!
Hi Nelson
would you mind sharing your render of the whisky glass, i am really trying to understand glass, liquids, reflections and the settings
cheers.
mitch
Hi Mitch,
Sorry for the late reply. I haven't been to the forum in a long time.
For the glass and liquid settings, I used this thread to learn about how to make the beer bottle and tumbler with whiskey work.
http://keyshot.com/forum/index.php/topic,1044.msg3956.html#msg3956
Nelson,
How are you doing the condensation? It looks great!
How is the condensation done please?