(https://i.imgur.com/WRx6n70.jpg)
As you can see the backdrop ramp looks a little bit grainy. I am using a texture (paper) from Poliigon.
The shadow quality is 5 (render settings) and the material samples 24.
The render scenes at the moment of the image uploaded was 150 samples and 54 min
There are also darker stripes on the back of the ramp if you check.
Thanks in advance .
Edit: Sorry the samples for the paper are 16
Here a screenshot with 469 samples ???
(https://i.imgur.com/w746bGz.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/9o4R05V.png)
1200 Samples aprox in 1 hour 6FPS. This is a sphere from KS.
I am not understanding what is causing such a slow performance. I am also not convinced with the quality of the shadow.
The sphere looks a little bit floating.
Regards
Find scene attached
If anyone could check the scene will help a lot
I think so .
Hi Zooropa,
If you save as a .ksp, when we download the file, your environment and textures won't be missing (it's hard to assess when there's missing assets).
The main reason your rendering is slow is because you're rendering NURBS and not triangles.
Your shadow quality is turned way up as well... that's going to slow things down.
The actual appearance of your shadow will be affected by your environment (which I could not see because it wasn't included in the .bip file)
Hope that helps. I'd recommend uploading it again as a .ksp so it'll be easier to assess.
Quote from: Will Gibbons on April 02, 2018, 08:00:16 AM
Hi Zooropa,
If you save as a .ksp, when we download the file, your environment and textures won't be missing (it's hard to assess when there's missing assets).
The main reason your rendering is slow is because you're rendering NURBS and not triangles.
Your shadow quality is turned way up as well... that's going to slow things down.
The actual appearance of your shadow will be affected by your environment (which I could not see because it wasn't included in the .bip file)
Hope that helps. I'd recommend uploading it again as a .ksp so it'll be easier to assess.
Will if you check the sphere is from KS. Not using nurbs now in my test scene. Ill send it now the complete scene via message.
Thanks so much for helping me !
Regards!
So, interior mode shows fantastic results in the shadows after only about 2 min. Its running at about 15 fps on my machien ad after 120 seconds it reaches about 100 samples . I reduced the size of the region window and at about 200 samples, the shadows were buttery smooth, no noise, perfect gradients.
I also cranked down the number of GI bounces, as there aren't any highly reflective surfaces in the scene, as well as the ray bounces, reduced that to 2, and didn't seem to affect the image, but the FPS jumped up a bit.
Now, I understand that those settings might not hold up with other objects in the scene, but just using your ball setup, making those tweaks seemed to get some good results.
I tried the new product mode as well, but as with the other product mode, even though my fps went up to 149, it took even longer to resolve a smooth noise-free shadow, so I think your solution is to use interior mode.
Quote from: mattjgerard on April 03, 2018, 08:30:03 AM
So, interior mode shows fantastic results in the shadows after only about 2 min. Its running at about 15 fps on my machien ad after 120 seconds it reaches about 100 samples . I reduced the size of the region window and at about 200 samples, the shadows were buttery smooth, no noise, perfect gradients.
I also cranked down the number of GI bounces, as there aren't any highly reflective surfaces in the scene, as well as the ray bounces, reduced that to 2, and didn't seem to affect the image, but the FPS jumped up a bit.
Now, I understand that those settings might not hold up with other objects in the scene, but just using your ball setup, making those tweaks seemed to get some good results.
I tried the new product mode as well, but as with the other product mode, even though my fps went up to 149, it took even longer to resolve a smooth noise-free shadow, so I think your solution is to use interior mode.
Thanks I will try with interior mode to see if it changes also with you other recommendations. Today and will return to show.
This is strange...but this came after 18 hs rendering...the percentage of completed was just at eleven...I do not understand nothing with this render anymore:
Check the attachment.
Please note that the Shadow Quality in the Lighting tab only affects shadows on the default Ground or a Ground Plane object. If a plane with any other material (Plastic, Advanced...) is used as a ground plane, then the Shadow Quality will make no difference. This applies to the real-time view, Maximum Time and Samples rendering.
The "wirly torus" scene is still impossible to troubleshoot. Too many variables at play.
Is it possible for you to share the scene as a .ksp?
You can send data securely via our WeTransfer (https://keyshot.wetransfer.com/). Send to dries-at-luxion-dot-com.
Dries
Quote from: DriesV on April 04, 2018, 12:49:38 AM
Please note that the Shadow Quality in the Lighting tab only affects shadows on the default Ground or a Ground Plane object. If a plane with any other material (Plastic, Advanced...) is used as a ground plane, then the Shadow Quality will make no difference. This applies to the real-time view, Maximum Time and Samples rendering.
The "wirly torus" scene is still impossible to troubleshoot. Too many variables at play.
Is it possible for you to share the scene as a .ksp?
You can send data securely via our WeTransfer (https://keyshot.wetransfer.com/). Send to dries-at-luxion-dot-com.
Dries
Ok Dries did not know this about the shadow. It means any change I input there will not make any effect? So should I lower it to 1 or just do not pay attention cause It is not running in my scene ? A mail will arrive soon to your mailbox
Thanks!!! a lot
Quote from: mattjgerard on April 03, 2018, 08:30:03 AM
So, interior mode shows fantastic results in the shadows after only about 2 min. Its running at about 15 fps on my machien ad after 120 seconds it reaches about 100 samples . I reduced the size of the region window and at about 200 samples, the shadows were buttery smooth, no noise, perfect gradients.
I also cranked down the number of GI bounces, as there aren't any highly reflective surfaces in the scene, as well as the ray bounces, reduced that to 2, and didn't seem to affect the image, but the FPS jumped up a bit.
Now, I understand that those settings might not hold up with other objects in the scene, but just using your ball setup, making those tweaks seemed to get some good results.
I tried the new product mode as well, but as with the other product mode, even though my fps went up to 149, it took even longer to resolve a smooth noise-free shadow, so I think your solution is to use interior mode.
Thanks Matt I am trying with interior mode now. Just for the sake of the shadow quality...unfortunately the times look like they are going to be always super super high. 18 hs for 140 samples at 2k render.
So far...20 samples in hour and half and looks like the attachment. I guess the preliminar shadows are going to be cleaner with time. I think in product mode they look a little bit less scary at the beginning. I guess I will need to test it 18 hs with interior mode.
to realistically compare the shadows.
:)
I am starting to think that Rhino to KS is not the best workflow in terms of times. I guess that model in a polygonal software will be much much faster.
Thank you for sending the scene.
The model is indeed quite sluggish to render. We are having a look.
You don't happen to have the possibility to create a single closed mesh of this model, do you? That would probably be much faster.
Dries
The problem is that if it was a single solid i can not assign different materials to the strips.
Or can I ? That is the reason i did it like that.
Thanks!
What is the 'size' of your environment and 'ground' in the environment tab?
Sometimes, by default the size of those two settings are waaaay larger than needed, and cranking those down to something more appropriate for the frame/object reduces the rendering of the ground by quite a bit.
Quote from: DMerz III on April 04, 2018, 11:39:15 AM
What is the 'size' of your environment and 'ground' in the environment tab?
Sometimes, by default the size of those two settings are waaaay larger than needed, and cranking those down to something more appropriate for the frame/object reduces the rendering of the ground by quite a bit.
Not using ground. I am using a ramp.
The enviroment is 4142mm
We have looked into this model. It is slow, because it is rather extreme with many complex overlapping parts.
There is not much we can do at this point to make it faster.
Dries
Quote from: DriesV on April 05, 2018, 05:06:14 AM
We have looked into this model. It is slow, because it is rather extreme with many complex overlapping parts.
There is not much we can do at this point to make it faster.
Dries
No worries, I appreciate the help. I am not sure about the "overlapping" nothing should be overlapping rather meeting in a tangent way.
I think what Dries was suggesting was if you could sweep/loft the profile along a spline to create this geometry with a single surface, it should be much faster to render. Of course, then you'd need to assign UVs to the geometry to make the texture work they way you want it I believe.
Quote from: Will Gibbons on April 05, 2018, 07:55:16 AM
I think what Dries was suggesting was if you could sweep/loft the profile along a spline to create this geometry with a single surface, it should be much faster to render. Of course, then you'd need to assign UVs to the geometry to make the texture work they way you want it I believe.
oh yes.. Unfortunately Rhino for mac does not support uving...
Quote from: mattjgerard on April 03, 2018, 08:30:03 AM
So, interior mode shows fantastic results in the shadows after only about 2 min. Its running at about 15 fps on my machien ad after 120 seconds it reaches about 100 samples . I reduced the size of the region window and at about 200 samples, the shadows were buttery smooth, no noise, perfect gradients.
I also cranked down the number of GI bounces, as there aren't any highly reflective surfaces in the scene, as well as the ray bounces, reduced that to 2, and didn't seem to affect the image, but the FPS jumped up a bit.
Now, I understand that those settings might not hold up with other objects in the scene, but just using your ball setup, making those tweaks seemed to get some good results.
I tried the new product mode as well, but as with the other product mode, even though my fps went up to 149, it took even longer to resolve a smooth noise-free shadow, so I think your solution is to use interior mode.
I did another check with interior mode...you are right...just works better...and it is not slower (not in my scene at least). The shadows look better and convince me more than the Product mode.
Please check the attachment.
Also want to add that the backdrop ramp has a different bump...so the noise is not particular a problem in comparison. It is just that It looks floating...the shadows are not accurate at all.
I remember that Esben had a tip about making the pin smaller to get more defined shadows...but I find the method a little bit counter intuitive. I am not an expert in lighting and hacking this to a small source without loosing the reflection is not easy for me.
That's looking a lot better!
Smaller light source = sharper shadows
Larger light source = diffuse shadows
You can have both by having both large lighting features in your HDRI and get the sharper shadows by 1) adding smaller, brighter pin lights or 2) Adding IES practical lights to the scene. I personally find manipulating practical in-scene physical lights easier, as I'm not totally understanding how HDRI lighting works, so I usually end up adding spheres and planes with emissive or area light materials or using IES light objects.
In real world studio setups, this image is a good example. I have done 15 years worth of work with Toro on the video side, but the product shooters had the same setup every time. Huge overhead softboxes to cast general lighting and soft shadows, then practical floor lamps to hit features of the mowers and to cast those sharper shadows that would glue the product to the white floor and keep it from looking like it was floating.
https://www.toro.com/en/golf/fairway-mowers/reelmaster-3550
Quote from: mattjgerard on April 06, 2018, 06:40:18 AM
That's looking a lot better!
Smaller light source = sharper shadows
Larger light source = diffuse shadows
You can have both by having both large lighting features in your HDRI and get the sharper shadows by 1) adding smaller, brighter pin lights or 2) Adding IES practical lights to the scene. I personally find manipulating practical in-scene physical lights easier, as I'm not totally understanding how HDRI lighting works, so I usually end up adding spheres and planes with emissive or area light materials or using IES light objects.
In real world studio setups, this image is a good example. I have done 15 years worth of work with Toro on the video side, but the product shooters had the same setup every time. Huge overhead softboxes to cast general lighting and soft shadows, then practical floor lamps to hit features of the mowers and to cast those sharper shadows that would glue the product to the white floor and keep it from looking like it was floating.
https://www.toro.com/en/golf/fairway-mowers/reelmaster-3550
Added just for a test of a new scene.
Trying to follow your tip, think also Esben mention to me too.
I duplicated one light source and make it smaller and extremely brighter...
You can check the printscren, It is not working at all ...I do not know what happens with me this week ...but KS and I are not getting along.
Actually, Rhino does support UVing.
Here's an old video showing the process: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75cQX-iF8YA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75cQX-iF8YA)
As for the small pin... I think you made it too small. Turn off the big pin and make the pin size 5 and brightness 100. Should work. If your big pin is too bright, it's going to make the shadow of the small pin too difficult to see.
Quote from: zooropa on April 06, 2018, 12:03:41 AM
I remember that Esben had a tip about making the pin smaller to get more defined shadows...but I find the method a little bit counter intuitive. I am not an expert in lighting and hacking this to a small source without loosing the reflection is not easy for me.
If you have trouble wrapping your head around the concept, then just think of the sun and a cloudy sky. Might help.
The sun (which is a tiny dot compared to the large sky) creates sharp defined shadows, while the cloudy sky (which covers a large area) creates soft shadows.
You'll need to have both to have clear defined shadows and larger reflections on your object as Matt states.
As for your latest test, I would try to make the small pin bigger as Will suggests. I really need something smaller than pin size 1.
Quote from: mattjgerard on April 06, 2018, 06:40:18 AM
In real world studio setups, this image is a good example. I have done 15 years worth of work with Toro on the video side, but the product shooters had the same setup every time. Huge overhead softboxes to cast general lighting and soft shadows, then practical floor lamps to hit features of the mowers and to cast those sharper shadows that would glue the product to the white floor and keep it from looking like it was floating.
https://www.toro.com/en/golf/fairway-mowers/reelmaster-3550
Cool example, Matt! I would have guessed it was a rendering if someone had asked. Pretty interesting.
Quote from: Will Gibbons on April 06, 2018, 08:15:51 AM
Actually, Rhino does support UVing.
Here's an old video showing the process: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75cQX-iF8YA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75cQX-iF8YA)
As for the small pin... I think you made it too small. Turn off the big pin and make the pin size 5 and brightness 100. Should work. If your big pin is too bright, it's going to make the shadow of the small pin too difficult to see.
Thanks Will! Worked with the value at 25000 like Esben videos!
Quote from: Esben Oxholm on April 07, 2018, 08:18:43 AM
Quote from: zooropa on April 06, 2018, 12:03:41 AM
I remember that Esben had a tip about making the pin smaller to get more defined shadows...but I find the method a little bit counter intuitive. I am not an expert in lighting and hacking this to a small source without loosing the reflection is not easy for me.
If you have trouble wrapping your head around the concept, then just think of the sun and a cloudy sky. Might help.
The sun (which is a tiny dot compared to the large sky) creates sharp defined shadows, while the cloudy sky (which covers a large area) creates soft shadows.
You'll need to have both to have clear defined shadows and larger reflections on your object as Matt states.
As for your latest test, I would try to make the small pin bigger as Will suggests. I really need something smaller than pin size 1.
Quote from: mattjgerard on April 06, 2018, 06:40:18 AM
In real world studio setups, this image is a good example. I have done 15 years worth of work with Toro on the video side, but the product shooters had the same setup every time. Huge overhead softboxes to cast general lighting and soft shadows, then practical floor lamps to hit features of the mowers and to cast those sharper shadows that would glue the product to the white floor and keep it from looking like it was floating.
https://www.toro.com/en/golf/fairway-mowers/reelmaster-3550
Cool example, Matt! I would have guessed it was a rendering if someone had asked. Pretty interesting.
Thanks Esben getting there...Still trying to manage the shadow on the plants. I guess a little bit more of work...also on the textures