Post some samples of your KeyShot renderings, if you have spare moment. Thanks.
Curious to how you would control the lighting in an interior space.
I this has been read 962 times, pity there are no replies, I too would live to see some hints on how to deal with interiors that don't have loads of plate glass windows around them to let the light in. Emissive materials are a possibe but make the rendering times super slow.
Perhaps you have found some techniques?
Cheers
Stephen
I had a play in the early days but I believe the HDR studio is worth a look at!
I also use HDR Light Studios Pro, as well as panels. Here's our kitchen designs, now remodeled. We went with the "dark" look, not painted cabinets. Also, there was a recent post by a new member, with wonderful shots of his exhibit and stage designs, but I can't find his post. Very inspiring.
Bill G
Interesting, how long did it take for this setup?
I am curently re-building my bathroom, coming from a squared room (1m80 * 1m80) with a bath, a toilet, a single sink and a big radiator.
I knocked down a wall and made it a 1m80 x 2m80 room with a bath, a double sink and a flat/high radiator and a toilet in a separate room.
To get an idea what it would look like, I made these renders. Also I can use this setup for color study for the tiles etc.
I didn't let them render for long though .. just enough to get a good idea ... thus kinda grainy.
Just to clarify the earlier post was not with HDR studio that is just keyshot, the thin panel roof was added to cast a shadow and wasn't intended to be in shot. Also since then I have learnt how to make the 4th wall invisible but still act as a light reflector or source by applying emissivity. At the time of this render you can still see the window reflecting the open environment.
Nice posts all thanks for taking the time to upload!
it is not easy, in my opinion, to set the vision in a space perspective ---> closed all sides.
right?
The trouble is not so much the perspective .. it's that the light is coming from the HDRI (environement) and if your room is a closed box, it'll be black as night.
One could add emissive materials to simulate lights, but that slows down rendering by a LOT.
If I understand your question Antoine...
The 4th side, the wall you are shooting through, is made emissive with a texture this allows you to editthe material, add the texture that will give you the reflections you want, then make the material invisible by setting the Visible to the eye off, also if you donot want the wall in reflections set this to off also.
Camer angle is easy for me as I am a keen amateur photographer i think of it this way
28mm wide angle
50mm standard
80 - 200mm shortens depth of field.
use distance then to crop the shot to where you want it.
does this answer your question?
regards
Cliff
Philip may well be correct about time taken I have not used HDR studio but it sure looks good for the
QuoteThe 4th side, the wall you are shooting through, is made emissive with a texture this allows you to editthe material
good idea. i will to try
thanks
Yes, the HDR does need to be able to access the subject. On my kitchen remodel (my wife's hammering at me now to do the cabinets!) I started with an accuract, but not highly detailed, SolidWorks model. Took about a day to measure and model, including the new appliances.
The important thing is that I did the ceiling in two parts so I could apply materials to suit. I found that various combinations of glass worked well, allowing me to adjust the overall look and color temperature by swaping out materials. Frosted worked great, and also if it was slightly warm tinted. Anyway, the following images may give food for thought. Great way to visualize a remodel! Trick- take some real photos of the space, use them as backplates, hide the model walls, for example and use the backplate to adjust the view and perspective.
Bill G
If I can give you some tips :
- Don't forget Keyshot is reacting like a REAL CAMERA. And in real photography, if you want to have a perfect interior lighting, you have to forget the exterior (you will be able to do some changes
on photoshop later).
So, that means 2 things :
- your interior has to be completely closed (no open walls, you have to close your house with all your walls)
- Your HDRI has to be OVER LIGHTED (use a complete white hdri) and push it as luminous as you can (because in reality, the light of the sun is the most strong you can find)
LOOK AT THE REALITY : to have a perfect interior rendering, you will have to do this : OVER EXPOSED LIGHT + CLOSED WALLS (only windows can let the ligh come in the house)
And of course.... work on your materials, it's very important.
After this, in "real time render", play with gama and lighting to have the perfect result ;)
heu...
ce sont des images de synthese?
de toi?
Hi Francois,
I would agree that as in real photography good exposure indoors will almost always give over exposed image where the outdoors is visible assuming sunny day, but I do like the way that HDR and keyshot can give an unnatural therefore eye catching image. The viewers mind even if not educated on lighting would not be aware the pupil in the eye adjusts as you scan the room in real world and on seeing the images you have uploaded would percive those as unnatuarly bright. So I guess the thing you have pointed out and what we should all bear in mind is that we can achieve both in keyshot, the choice is which effect is the most desirable for our purposes, thanks for all the examples I enjoy reading your posts!
regards
Cliff
Hi there I'm also interested in getting the juice out of Keyshot for interior rendering, this is a scene I've been working on. I think the main challenge it's to illuminate closed spaces and like others said you have to remove the celling to let the light do it's job.
Sometimes I get black spots on the wall or white ones behind frosted glass, maybe higher settings could solve this.
Still a work in progress any tips are welcome.
greetings
i test interior scenes in keyshot but always many grain after many hours
(http://img542.imageshack.us/img542/5121/keyshot.jpg)
Have you tried advanced settings? I first tried in max time and samples but got always the same grainy texture.
yes i tried advanced settings but take more time to render
I always have more luck with large windows and a deliberately grainy look.
Also a sun HDRI that renders sharp shadows helps.
Another shot of that kitchen.
Looks very good. The new lights in KeyShot 4 will make those under-cabinet lights much better.
My personal try for interior renderings... only emitter material for lighting
Looks great!
What material (samples) and render (bounces, time/sample/advanced mode...) settings did you use?
How long did it take to render on what type of machine?
Dries
Tank you!
So... the material are: emitter for the light (cool and warm color for different effect, and different intensity) then NO HDRI light (that's for more atmosphere in the scene)
Setting of the matierial are all "plastic" and "paint" whit textures added, diffuse, specular, bump map. But no samples increment
43 minutes rendering at this resolution
Whit all the parameters in middle position... 49 samples, 16 bounces, anti aliasing 5, shadow 3, global 3, ecc...
Coputer: intel core i7 2600 3.4GHz 8GB RAM, Widows 7 64 bit
Sorry for the languages error... i m from Switzerland
Ivan
Depending on the scene composition (e.g. whether there are windows in view with bright light coming in etc.) I find it very hard to get absolutely clean images (no splotches, no grain where there should be none...) using the advanced rendering mode.
Image quality is much more consistent and predictable using realtime rendering or time/sample limit rendering, but it takes a very long time to become 'clean'.
I notice that it is sometimes impossible to get clean images with advanced rendering, even with GI @ 5 (max.), especially with interiors.
Or, I must be doing something completely the wrong way. :D Any advice is welcome...
Dries
I just did this one. Model is from grabcad. Lighting is desaturated outdoor HDRI with strong pin light (placed over sun) and emissive spheres in those ceiling light fixtures.
Took about 1.5 hours.
Dries
The good thing is the setting time of the scene (camera, textures, material, lighting..) very quick.
I mean, normally I use Vray for the interiors, and every time I have to re-render the scene... or every time I adjust color, textures or something I use many time, and time is money (specially in this work).
I think in my case I don't see many grain or splotches...
more light enters in the scene, better able is the program to calculate the bounces of light and then the image will be better, does not have to be brighter but with multiple light sources from which to get information... this is my method ;-)
Ivan
This is an old try for interiors in Keyshot3... same settings, (ok the image is little :) )
still no HRDI only emitter materials
My biggest problem is being used to wait for just 15 minutes for a product rendering. :D
So everything over that now feels like an eternity. ;D
At the KeyShot guys:
Maybe interior rendering can be the topic of an upcoming webinar?
Especially with all the good stuff coming with KeyShot 4...
Dries
nice image. has it been scaled down or is that the actual resolution?...and render time? :)
Hi,
No on this computer I have only this resolution of the images... the real size was 1600x1200...
Render time is 27 min... whit middle-high level setting
Ivan
I added and updated some materials.
Dries
Updated lighting. ;)
Dries
Would anyone be willing to share their scene that uses only emissive materials to light it? I'd love to poke around and learn from looking at a proven setup.
Thanks in advance!
Jeff
The emissive material is not really intended for interior lighting (unless you have a lot of patience). KeyShot 4 will have area lights, IES lights, and point lights that will do a much better job.
No problem Jeff,
Try to render whit this one.
I have also a screenshot of my parameters...
Try also to add object in the library if you want, pictures on the wall, chairs, ecc. :)
Now the spot light are turned off... maybe in KeyShot 4 we can do better whit the new features... but for the moment... :D
Ivan
QuoteThe emissive material is not really intended for interior lighting (unless you have a lot of patience). KeyShot 4 will have area lights, IES lights, and point lights that will do a much better job.
....
i wait ;)
Ivan, thanks for that scene file! ;)
I decided to take it for a spin in KeyShot 4 BETA to give an idea about what can be done with the new light materials.
I used area lights and IES lights (the ceiling lights) only.
Render time was exactly 50 minutes at 1500*1050, using advanced rendering (50 samples, 6 ray bounces, AA 5, shadow 1, GI 3, Pixel blur 1,5) on a 3930K CPU based machine.
Dries
Yeah!
The quality of the shadow and the light is very good...
IES lights are amazing!
Keep working on this scene whit object and materials!
Ivan
Really well.
It is possible in K4, soften shadows?
I think the shadow below the chair for example.
Antoine
The shadows are hard because of the IES light above the chair.
The point light and IES point light do cast hard shadows. If you want soft shadows you have to use area lights.
I will keep updating this scene! ;)
Dries
This is the same scene, whit object, rendered in Vray for rhino...
Now if we find the method to emulate the same ambient and light, we have won :)
Because whit Vray I have 1-2 h for setting all the scene, and 1 h rendering...
Whit KeyShot 20 min setting and 20 min render! :)
Okay...
First revision of this scene. ;)
Dries
Please, is that the real time is still grainy with V4?
No, that's my plaster wall texture... ;D
This was rendered with advanced mode. Rest assured, surfaces are crispy clear. ;)
Dries
no no no ... :)
I'm talking about rendering "real time" which was very slow and grainy in V3.
I'd like to know if it has been improved in V4.
Ooooh...aaaah... ::)
I haven't timed it yet, but I feel that in certain scenarios there is a big improvement.
E.g. when working with the new local lights in KS4 vs emissive material in KS3.
E.g. translucent material (HUGE improvement both in speed, quality, usability, behavior...)
...
Dries
ok thank you very much!
Updated with radiator mounted on wall.
I should leave this scene alone now. :P
Dries
a little test with the scene from Ivan.
Keyshot V.4, je t aime! :-* :-* :-*
Antoine
Nice twist, Antoine! ;)
Btw...
Does anybody know a free/paid resource(s) for quality modern interior models/scenes (fully textured) that can be imported in KeyShot?
Something like http://www.evermotion.org/modelshop/show_category/archinteriors/104 (http://www.evermotion.org/modelshop/show_category/archinteriors/104), but in a 3D format that KeyShot can use.
I posted a request about this already here: http://keyshot.com/forum/index.php/topic,5281.0.html (http://keyshot.com/forum/index.php/topic,5281.0.html).
Dries
Hi Dries, have you tried GrabCAD ... http://grabcad.com/library?per_page=20&query=Kitchen you should find two or three on there
Martin
Hei! You`ve done some amazing stuff with keyshot! I love it and wish I could do the same! I have built a scene, but have no idea how to render it like in the image. Can someone help me?
And the first decent result on lighting. There are still things to work out. Any suggestions? Would love to learn more tips and tricks.
I have downloaded your scene.
I'm working on setting this up for you. I will give you the KSP back so you can open it and see what I did.
Tim
Thanks for sharing the scene. With the materials, this is looking great, imo. Looking forward to what everyone shares.
Would be great to see your take on the scene. Please, if you have downloaded it and worked upon it, share it back and explain a bit what you have done. I want to see where I have made a mistake and what can I improve.
//Cheers!
Alex
Hi Alex,
Here is a test render of your interior. I did do some post work.
I'm rendering a final shot of this right now I will post the final image in the next few days. I just wanted to show you what is possible.
The first thing I did was adjust the scale of the model. The IES lights that were in the bip you supplied were bigger then the model. I also changed the Scene Units to Centimeters.
The ceiling lights are Area light diffuse. You were using IES lights. I also added on IES light by the sinks to get more light towards the back of the Bathroom. I re did all materials. I noticed all the materials on your bip were set at 9 samples. I recommend at least 32 samples on the materials itself. I will post the final BIP/KSP once I button everything up.
Tim
Hey Tim!
Thank you for the tips and for taking the time to work on the scene as well. I did my own version as well. Still a few things to tweak...lights, a few materials:the table, the wall tiles. I also noticed there is something wrong with those IES lights...but apparently, when I exported from maya as .igs it changed the size. I don`t know why, but this always happens to me. There should be a setting I just don`t do right. I am working now on the improvement of the image as well. I did not know the materials should be set to have 32 samples, but it works only on a few materials. I also use the template materials and tweak them a bit.
Do you use keyshot pro? Maybe there are different setting for the materials there. Also, do you make yourself every materials starting from the same base?
Cheers!
//Alex
Hi Alex,
Here the final I was doing. I added a few props...lol I found the models here:
http://archive3d.net/?category=25&page=145
For some reason my ceiling has some noise, I need to tweak the material.
This was a lot of fun.
My door is always open.
I would add the ies lights in Keyshot not maya.
Also when importing into Keyshot I would have the size set on original not automatic.
Tim
How do I add a ksp file ? everytime I try to load it, it times out.
Hi Tim,
Maybe the Keyshot file is too big, check the size. I uploaded mine with the attachements, as the jpeg file. How did you do the wall tiles material? I tried a lot, but did not work at all... I would love to look at your ksp file if you could upload it. Meantime I reworked some of the scene as well.
//Alex
Looks great! Can I ask, are you using the 'indirect bounces' setting? Also, what happened to the table in Tims shots, its gone all tessellated.
Ed
Hi Ed,
I have the indirect setting at 3. I also have global illumination turn off. I usually do not have that turned off but for some reason it didn't work with this set up.
Alex
If I can get your maya file so I can do this from scratch then I will be able to see if something need to be changed when its imported.
Tim
How do I upload the KSP file I try to attach it but it just times out. The KSP is only 10MB
You had GI off? interesting... this may be the key to all my interior failings since playing about with KS5. Thanks for letting me know.
Ed
Tim,
Nice work, I like how you held the detail in the lights, and your materials are realistic, the reflections off the wall and floor are what makes it. Nice twist by adding props to break the sterileness . It's inspiring to see your work outside of automotive imagery, it shows your true 3D image artistry.
GP
Hi Tim,
I tried to upload the obj file, but it did not work, you can download it from here: http://we.tl/ssGDphZFyQ. If you want to, you could share the KSP file the same way. I used my email address at both sender and receiver field and copied the link from my inbox.
Hi Ed,
The table in Tim`s file is polygon pixelated because I forgot to smoothen the geometry. Sometimes, it works to export to keyshot with the visual smoothness ( key 3 in Maya) but sometimes it does not work, as in this case.
//Alex
Alex thanks for the model. Here is a link for the KSP it will have the textures I made for the floor and walls.
http://we.tl/sVPsBMYFQP
I will work a new file and see if I have any difference between the two. I'm hoping so the KSP I just gave you took 20 hrs to render. I have never rendered anything that long on my I7 ...lol
Tim
Tim,
What Keyshot version are you using? I have 4.0 Pro and cannot open your file.
//Alex
Oh no...now that's an issue. I'm using KS 5.1.57
I will have to redo this all in KS4 for you. Give me a day or two.
Tim
Looks like I am a bit behind with the updates. I will try to install the pro version 5.1.57 trial and render with the keyshot watermark, just to have a look at the file, if possible.