KeyShot Forum

Share => Materials and Textures => Topic started by: EdwinKlijn on May 25, 2010, 12:19:23 am

Title: Sharing/selling materials and making use of a material ball.
Post by: EdwinKlijn on May 25, 2010, 12:19:23 am
Hi Thomas,
i'm thinking about uploading some materials. To keep a nice overview I created an object to show of the materials (the famous 'material ball' or what's it called? ;-)) Is it ok to use this? It does feature the keyshot logo so i can imagine you want to have a say in it.

Also, i might release some more advanced materials for a small fee. Is it okay to use this 'ball'?
And will materials from Keyshot v1 work in V2?

Here are some examples. The materials shown are from Keyshot.

(http://www.cgshake.com/craparoony/glass.jpg)
(http://www.cgshake.com/craparoony/green_paint.jpg)
(http://www.cgshake.com/craparoony/old_gold.jpg)
(http://www.cgshake.com/craparoony/red_leather.jpg)
(http://www.cgshake.com/craparoony/soap_bubble.jpg)

Kind regards
Edwin
Title: Re: Sharing/selling materials and making use of a material ball.
Post by: Sam on May 25, 2010, 04:03:46 am
maybe, if you make this 'ball' common, so everyone can post materials to the forum, that could be nice... :-)
Title: Re: Sharing/selling materials and making use of a material ball.
Post by: EdwinKlijn on May 25, 2010, 07:56:51 am
Hi Sam,
i can/will upload the bin-file as soon as Thomas approves the model.

gegroet ;-)
Title: Re: Sharing/selling materials and making use of a material ball.
Post by: Victor A on May 25, 2010, 03:37:55 pm
Great Idea to share materials. A website where you could this (upload/download) would be really the best.
Thanks/Dankje
Victor
Title: Re: Sharing/selling materials and making use of a material ball.
Post by: guest84672 on May 25, 2010, 04:39:10 pm
I LOVE what you have done. Very cool. The only comment I have - we reviewed here in the office - the logo maybe a bit much - maybe use it to make a cut out instead and keep the center diffuse? Also, the "lines" of the logo are a bit wavy.

I am open to suggestions!

Having an actual share site is the goal, but for now we can post those here. Thoughts?

Thanks so much!! This is great!!

Thomas
Title: Re: Sharing/selling materials and making use of a material ball.
Post by: JTrusty on May 25, 2010, 05:21:38 pm
I kid you not, I just started doing this just yesterday. I fired up Solidworks and modeled the Maxwell ball. Then proceeded to build my own material libraries with previews.  :)

(http://www.gearsector.com/img/misc/forum/key/red_oak_laquered.jpg)
Title: Re: Sharing/selling materials and making use of a material ball.
Post by: guest84672 on May 25, 2010, 06:27:02 pm
Looks great!!!
Title: Re: Sharing/selling materials and making use of a material ball.
Post by: JTrusty on May 25, 2010, 07:21:17 pm
Alright, here's my official entry for the geometry.  ;)

(http://www.gearsector.com/img/misc/forum/key/keyshot_material_preview.jpg)

Obviously all diffuse for the purpose of highlighting the geometry only.

For the record, we are going to need a subsurface embeded in the model as well ( assuming we are going to be getting subsurface scattering at some point ).
Title: Re: Sharing/selling materials and making use of a material ball.
Post by: Sam on May 26, 2010, 12:51:30 am
I love this!

I'm ready to use it :-)
Title: Re: Sharing/selling materials and making use of a material ball.
Post by: guest84672 on May 26, 2010, 05:57:20 am
Looking great - good point - you need a subsurface embedded for transparent materials.
Title: Re: Sharing/selling materials and making use of a material ball.
Post by: JTrusty on May 26, 2010, 09:46:25 am
I finalized my material preview geometry & bip file. The scene is pretty ideal. It uses the default hdr file with environment turned off and a white background field. The diffuse material is set to 50% grey ( 128, 128, 128 rgb value ) and to accent the logo and text I upped the value a hair.

Here are a couple of my updated polished wood materials in the preview scene.

(http://www.gearsector.com/img/misc/forum/key/wood/shader.01.jpg)

(http://www.gearsector.com/img/misc/forum/key/wood/shader.02.jpg)

(http://www.gearsector.com/img/misc/forum/key/wood/shader.03.jpg)

 :)
Title: Re: Sharing/selling materials and making use of a material ball.
Post by: EdwinKlijn on May 26, 2010, 11:34:34 am
Hi all,
the logo is a bit off indeed. I only needed a quick reference to spot Keyshot mats between all the other ones.

@Thomas, I guess JTrusty's is the idea you have in mind? (saves me from redesigning mine  ;)

@JTrusty, looking good! I wouldn't go for a 100% white background though. Especially when using transparant materials, you'll loose some details around the edges when using the default HDR.

Edwin
Title: Re: Sharing/selling materials and making use of a material ball.
Post by: JTrusty on May 26, 2010, 11:48:35 am
Edwin

Quote
JTrusty, looking good!

Thanks brother!  :)

Quote
I wouldn't go for a 100% white background though. Especially when using transparant materials, you'll loose some details around the edges when using the default HDR.

Actually, I just finished modeling in the subsurface disc and I added a physical ground place for the base grid. Rendering a sample now. Will post once its finished.
Title: Re: Sharing/selling materials and making use of a material ball.
Post by: Chad Holton on May 26, 2010, 11:57:48 am
They all look great. Although, I'm kinda in favor of the triangular cutout version (JTrusy's first model). Seems to have more variety of surfaces when previewing....
Title: Re: Sharing/selling materials and making use of a material ball.
Post by: guest84672 on May 26, 2010, 12:46:03 pm
@cholton - The triangular cutout is to "maxwell-ish".

@jtrusty - the light hitting the surface on the bottom may be a bit too hot. Either rotate the environment, or change the height or something. But it looks great. BTW - have you tried and used the wood texture as a bump map? If not, give it a try! No more leather on the machine gun to get a cast iron look ;-).

Brian will upload the KeyShot icon in eps for for you. He liked the logo bigger. But he will tell you that in a sec.
Title: Re: Sharing/selling materials and making use of a material ball.
Post by: Brian Townsend on May 26, 2010, 01:01:13 pm
Jason and Cholton,

These look great to say the least! I love the idea.  I do like the material ball with the larger logo better though.  Here is the .eps file for the icon if either of you want to experiment with that at all.  

Brian
Title: Re: Sharing/selling materials and making use of a material ball.
Post by: JTrusty on May 26, 2010, 01:07:28 pm
Quote
The light hitting the surface on the bottom may be a bit too hot. Either rotate the environment, or change the height or something. But it looks great. BTW - have you tried and used the wood texture as a bump map?

Thanks Thomas. Yes, I have used the wood textures also as the bump map. However, I also went a step further and created my own normal maps for each of the wood textures as well. The samples I have posted are from my "polished" wood library.  ;)

Quote
No more leather on the machine gun to get a cast iron look ;-).

Hey now! That leather shader can be extremely versatile if you push it.

Quote
Brian will upload the KeyShot icon in eps for for you.

Much appreciated. I grab a jpg from the Keyshot homepage and tossed in a sketch to create the logo I have now. The jpg was pretty small, so it was hard to get the proportions right.

 :)
Title: Re: Sharing/selling materials and making use of a material ball.
Post by: Robert V. on May 26, 2010, 01:27:28 pm
What is an eps file good for? To me it just looks like a normal picture.
Title: Re: Sharing/selling materials and making use of a material ball.
Post by: EdwinKlijn on May 26, 2010, 01:35:08 pm
What is an eps file good for? To me it just looks like a normal picture.

Hi there,
most modelling tools allow you to import an eps file which is then automatically converted to lines/curves.
Title: Re: Sharing/selling materials and making use of a material ball.
Post by: JTrusty on May 26, 2010, 01:37:15 pm
Quote
What is an eps file good for? To me it just looks like a normal picture.

It would have been quicker with a dxf for me. However, I simply opened the .eps in Illustrator and exported it to dxf. The dxf can be imported in Solidworks and used as a sketch to extrude or cut a surface.

I will have an updated preview in a few...

Thanks for the eps Brian.  :)
Title: Re: Sharing/selling materials and making use of a material ball.
Post by: Robert V. on May 26, 2010, 02:07:18 pm
I wish I knew this a long time ago, could have helped me a lot! thanks!
Title: Re: Sharing/selling materials and making use of a material ball.
Post by: Ralf-S on May 26, 2010, 02:30:25 pm
With Moi3D you can import *. eps, *.pdf, *.ai files
Select the path/curve/sketch and extrude.   :)

Here is a nice source with a lot of vector files.
http://www.brandsoftheworld.com/
Title: Re: Sharing/selling materials and making use of a material ball.
Post by: EdwinKlijn on May 26, 2010, 02:37:41 pm
Brian, 1st off, thx for the eps. This hides my bad tracing skills very well ;-)

1 more go before i head to bed.

red material: extended logo
(http://www.cgshake.com/craparoony/new_extend.jpg)
orange material: extended logo + diffuse inner ball
(light around the logo is quite bad...just a quick render)
(http://www.cgshake.com/craparoony/new_extend_diff.jpg)
copper material: indented logo
(http://www.cgshake.com/craparoony/new_indent.jpg)
black carbon material: indented logo + diffuse inner ball
(http://www.cgshake.com/craparoony/new_indent_diff.jpg)

The greyish background becomes quite obvious with dark materials.
The overall look is way too grey as well (i guess)
I might use a lighter BG when i wake up (also have some other ideas to bother you all with :-)

Have a good night/day.

Edwin
Title: Re: Sharing/selling materials and making use of a material ball.
Post by: JTrusty on May 26, 2010, 03:13:14 pm
Quote
...the light hitting the surface on the bottom may be a bit too hot. Either rotate the environment, or change the height or something.

Hot spot gone. I also imported my ground plane and built a quick grid texture. Gridded ground plane is ideal for glass and other reflective surfaces as seen below. Used the eps provided by Brian and increased the KeyShot logo. Also incorporated the Keyshot trademarked brand name. I think the focus should still be concentrated on the "material" which is why I went back to a single 50% grey diffuse material for the base and sub sphere.

(http://www.gearsector.com/img/misc/forum/key/wood/shader.04.jpg)

Title: Re: Sharing/selling materials and making use of a material ball.
Post by: guest84672 on May 26, 2010, 03:17:22 pm
SWEEEEETT - I think you can drop the TM though - too much in this case.

This is awesome, guys.
Title: Re: Sharing/selling materials and making use of a material ball.
Post by: rkulshrestha on May 26, 2010, 08:30:15 pm
Velly Velly niceee! We want all these yestelday  :)

The black one with the carbon fibre finish, why doesnt the base have the same finish?

Shivani
Title: Re: Sharing/selling materials and making use of a material ball.
Post by: JTrusty on May 27, 2010, 06:21:51 pm
Alrighty then.

Worked it a bit more today. After much deliberation I realized that there wasn't sufficient features in the model to illustrate all the various material types. We had plenty of smooth surfaces ( sphere, fillets, etc... ) but not enough hard edges and small features in close proximity. Hence the addition around the base skirt.

 :)

Here are a few sample materials

(http://www.gearsector.com/img/misc/forum/key/material/shader.01.jpg)

(http://www.gearsector.com/img/misc/forum/key/material/shader.02.jpg)

(http://www.gearsector.com/img/misc/forum/key/material/shader.03.jpg)

(http://www.gearsector.com/img/misc/forum/key/material/shader.04.jpg)

(http://www.gearsector.com/img/misc/forum/key/material/shader.05.jpg)

I also remove the ground plane. To get the look I was after, the DOF quality was killing the render times. Instead, I isolated and rendered the ground plane and created a backplate out of it. All the renders above completed in under 5 minutes each. Most around the 3 minute marker. And this is on my old Core2 Duo machine while running several other heavy applications in the background.

 ;D
Title: Re: Sharing/selling materials and making use of a material ball.
Post by: guest84672 on May 28, 2010, 05:53:19 am
Very nice - now ... the only thing missing is the sub-surface?
Title: Re: Sharing/selling materials and making use of a material ball.
Post by: Speedster on May 28, 2010, 06:40:39 am
Looking really nice.  Now, let's invent a board game so we can play with them! 

Seriously, what I miss seeing is a "flat", or planar, surface, ideally vertical.  Materials and mapping are quite different when seen on a flat surface.  However, since the purpose is to test and share materials, this design is quite adequate.

Good job!

Bill G
Title: Re: Sharing/selling materials and making use of a material ball.
Post by: JTrusty on May 28, 2010, 06:42:29 am
Quote
the only thing missing is the sub-surface?

Correct. Still considering what the geometry of the sub-surface should be. Strips, ring, small sphere(s)...  what are your thoughts on shape and placement?
Title: Re: Sharing/selling materials and making use of a material ball.
Post by: guest84672 on May 28, 2010, 07:17:21 am
Text?
Title: Re: Sharing/selling materials and making use of a material ball.
Post by: Chad Holton on May 28, 2010, 09:09:40 am
I like the new addition on the base and the logo looks great on the sphere. I was going to suggest maybe a hex cutout, to show more flat surface, instead of a circle around the logo - but that wouldn't look right now.
Title: Re: Sharing/selling materials and making use of a material ball.
Post by: Ed on May 28, 2010, 09:56:09 am
Using MoI you can create a few small bubbles inside the large sphere.  Shows nicely with clear materials.

Ed
Title: Re: Sharing/selling materials and making use of a material ball.
Post by: JTrusty on May 29, 2010, 01:55:35 pm
I am hoping to have the geometry and both scenes completed by next week. This way I can put together a distributable package for everyone to download.

Here are two samples from the two proposed scenes:

White scene with plenty of ambient light:
(http://www.gearsector.com/img/misc/forum/key/preview/scene_01.jpg)

Dark scene with more dramatic lighting:
(http://www.gearsector.com/img/misc/forum/key/preview/scene_02.jpg)

Its easy to create a material with little regard for how it will look in alternate environments. That's usually the case for me. I work a scene to death. Come back later and find that my material looks completely off in a different environment. Since the goal of this project is to help people create distributable materials, a  focus should be put on making sure those materials render correctly in most ( if not all ) environments. Providing two scenes should help achieve that goal.

Although the previous and more pronounced grid plane was nice, I found that it was competing ( visually ) with the material for dominance in the scene. Since we don't have a true "scale" system in KeyShot at this point, it only made sense to diminish the strength of the grid. Now it serves merely as a cue that the ground does in fact exist and provides a bit of depth to the scene.  :)

I should also have a set of wood materials completely next week as well. They are coming along very nicely.

Title: Re: Sharing/selling materials and making use of a material ball.
Post by: EdwinKlijn on June 02, 2010, 02:59:03 pm
Looking great there JTrusty. Looking forward to your textures!!!

I have one more go at it. Still not happy with the results (not even using a grid yet) but it's gettin' there (eventually). Silly 'project'. I should really focus on my real work  :D

Anyway,here are some new shots.
I created a 'KeyShot SubSurface-bar' inside the ball to get a quick scattering impression.

Have a nice evening

(http://www.cgshake.com/craparoony/1.jpg)
(http://www.cgshake.com/craparoony/2.jpg)
(http://www.cgshake.com/craparoony/3.jpg)
Title: Re: Sharing/selling materials and making use of a material ball.
Post by: guest84672 on June 02, 2010, 09:57:29 pm
I like how the color bleeds onto the surface. I think the subsurface can be smaller.

Looking great.
Title: Re: Sharing/selling materials and making use of a material ball.
Post by: Richman on June 10, 2010, 06:39:44 pm
I like JTrusty's sphere with the smaller logo (showing more material) and EdwinKlijn base.  You guys should combined them.
Title: Re: Sharing/selling materials and making use of a material ball.
Post by: DBKeyshot on July 27, 2010, 02:49:14 am
What a great thread...
@JTrusty: I like the fact that your base has some flat areas. Too often with these material balls from other programs I find the ball has no flat spot where I can examine the material. Also, I like the grid ground plane, but I think you should keep it white - especially for some of these materials that bounce light off onto the ground.
Title: Re: Sharing/selling materials and making use of a material ball.
Post by: chippwalters on October 22, 2010, 11:10:42 pm
I might suggest you use an actual room model with some emissive lights as Maxwell and others do. It makes for very real renders.