KeyShot Forum

Technical discussions => General discussion => Topic started by: Johnjoti on June 28, 2010, 07:34:20 PM

Title: Dispersion
Post by: Johnjoti on June 28, 2010, 07:34:20 PM
Hello
I read on the forum Bunkspeed Shot that the dispersion on the Gem stones in the Keyshot looks dirty and I agree it is so
http://bunkspeedshotbeta.hyperboards.com/index.php?action=view_topic&topic_id=289
Can you create new diamond material with new parameters in the near future?
Can you make a dispersion the same as in the FR 1.5 ?

FR 1.5 Diamond material
(http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/1254/diamondfr15.jpg) (http://img684.imageshack.us/i/diamondfr15.jpg/)

Title: Re: Dispersion
Post by: Johnjoti on June 30, 2010, 11:16:34 AM
Can you give me some thoughts on this? kindly let we know
Answer please!
Title: Re: Dispersion
Post by: guest84672 on June 30, 2010, 01:47:52 PM
Can you please provide an example where the diamond material has not worked for you?

Thomas
Title: Re: Dispersion
Post by: Johnjoti on June 30, 2010, 11:47:11 PM
(http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/5762/keyshotdiamond.jpg) (http://img265.imageshack.us/i/keyshotdiamond.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)


Diamond looks little gray
At the moment it is impossible to create a beautiful bright colored sparks. It looks as dull as in the HyperShot
Compare your render with RF 1.5. There is diamond looks lively, bright and iridescent


For these reasons I was forced to abandon work with HyperShot in the fullness of time  :-\
Title: Re: Dispersion
Post by: Sam on July 01, 2010, 04:50:56 AM
What I would try first

Detailed indirect illumination (i'm gessing this is a screenshot, not the actual render, this can help)
Detailed shadows

Give Global illumination quality a little bump?

but did you compare the actual render in keyshot with the first example you gave?
I tend to notice that these differ in result, to keep the fast updates sometimes it's not nessesary to have the absolute quality. but in a final render you do want it...

maybe this makes sense to start :-)

Title: Re: Dispersion
Post by: Johnjoti on July 01, 2010, 05:46:25 AM
(http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/4516/keysotrender.jpg) (http://img535.imageshack.us/i/keysotrender.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

That's not the quality settings of shadows, GL quality or Ray bounces and so forth...
It is evident that impossibility in principle of the Diamond material to generate  beautiful color spectrum


Title: Re: Dispersion
Post by: Johnjoti on July 01, 2010, 06:03:44 AM
(http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/4262/42977412.jpg) (http://img38.imageshack.us/i/42977412.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

(http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/1686/spectprism.jpg) (http://img17.imageshack.us/i/spectprism.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)


http://www.amnh.org/exhibitions/diamonds/dispersion.html
http://www.amnh.org/exhibitions/diamonds/color.html
Title: Re: Dispersion
Post by: guest84672 on July 01, 2010, 06:14:08 AM
It all largely depends on the lighting. Change the lighting and see the effect. You can also change the Abbe number to change the dispersion. An increase in raybounces will help to get rid of any black areas that are caused by the reflections

Rather than just looking at photos I also suggest you take an actual diamond and look at it under real world lighting.

As far as I am concerned, your FR example looks incorrect. But I could be wrong.

Thomas



Title: Re: Dispersion
Post by: Johnjoti on July 01, 2010, 06:30:54 AM
Thomas
I have diamond 2 carat. it is amazing! it is iridescent
Excuse me but your material is really improper and unbeautiful. It does not help the environment and Abbe number
Please be so kind to create a beautiful material at least as in the FR...



Title: Re: Dispersion
Post by: Johnjoti on July 01, 2010, 11:26:27 AM
In addition to examples of diamonds in the photos I brought scientific data on the color characteristics of the diamond

http://www.amnh.org/exhibitions/diamonds/dispersion.html
http://www.amnh.org/exhibitions/diamonds/color.html

Your material does not have the shades of rainbow
No saturated shades of green, aquamarine colour violet and purple
There are many black-gray-blue black-gray-yellow and brown colors. But the blue and brown colors are so small in size that look points. Abbe number does not affect. Why colored plots can not make more extensive?
In general, your diamond mat looks dirty!!!
If the environment to put colorful HDR, then wins the Diamond but losing my material gold it reflects all the colors and looks terrible
if you raise raybountses order to remove the black spots. but then the diamond looks blurry, not clear

I'm not the first. This was recognized by my friends a jewelry designers.
Sorry  :-\
Title: Re: Dispersion
Post by: guest84672 on July 01, 2010, 03:04:25 PM
Our diamond material is scientifically accurate - but I will let our Chief Scientist explain that to you.

As far as "blur goes" - decrease the pixel filter size in the final render output to 1 - 1.2 then you won't get the softness in the picture.

I hope this helps.

Thomas
Title: Re: Dispersion
Post by: Johnjoti on July 01, 2010, 03:44:00 PM
Ok, all right! but...
If your material is scientifically based, then why do we not see the color spectrum? Why is your material reflects and refracts the image of the environment as a mirror? If HDR is predominant blue color of your material will also be blue! Where the color spectrum? Where is green, aquamarine, orange .... ?

I do not know why you are so hard to hold one's own and not acknowledge the indubitable facts

ps
I want to help make your program's better than now
and you do not want to listen!!!!!!
Title: Re: Dispersion
Post by: Ed on July 01, 2010, 08:54:04 PM
I have attached a Keyshot render with a reference photo in the corner.

I’ll echo what Thomas posted â€" The largest factor in rendering a diamond is the lighting.  Multiple smaller light sources in the HDRI appear to work best.

In my example here I set the ABBE in the diamond material to 20 just to show the increased dispersion â€" but that’s set too far in my opinion.  I normally adjust the ABBE until I just start to see dispersion.  The ideal number seems dependent on the HDRI and the size of the diamond.

The example in the earlier post of the FR 1.5 Diamond material does not look realistic to me â€" and yes I work with small diamonds, but not 2 carat :)

Ed
Title: Re: Dispersion
Post by: guest84672 on July 01, 2010, 11:37:51 PM
Thanks Ed, very helpful.
Title: Re: Dispersion
Post by: Johnjoti on July 02, 2010, 01:13:43 AM
turned out very nice diamond, but it's the best thing we can do keyshot.
You can use any HDR, can use any value Abbe, but will never see any green or aquamarine or orange ...

(http://img808.imageshack.us/img808/3488/diamonde.jpg) (http://img808.imageshack.us/i/diamonde.jpg/)


if you will not give a promise to make materials of good quality I am will forced to abandon work with KeyShot and will demand to return my money   :-\

Thanks understanding for my position
Title: Re: Dispersion
Post by: Ed on July 02, 2010, 10:20:17 AM
Here is another scene using the same HDRI as my prior posting.  This time I tilted the diamond up toward the light, and I added a small rectangular plane with a white emissive material to act as a bounce card. The emissive object (set invisible to the eye) does not affect the color, but just allowed me to brighten up the diamond a little independently of the HDRI.

The top render has the diamond material ABBE=14.  The bottom has ABBE=1.5 to show the extreme end of the range.

Diamonds are complex, and you have to find the right HDRI and sweet spot to illuminate it. This lighting would probably not be correct if the diamond were mounted in a ring shank.  It's difficult to find a sweet spot that illuminates both the diamond and the ring shank correctly at the same time.

So for a mounted diamond I would make two render passes: Hide the ring shank and adjust lighting for the diamond, and save the render.  Then un-hide the ring shank and adjust the lighting for the metal, and save the render.  Combine the two images using layers in Photoshop.  

Using this technique you can even use two different HDR environments - one optimized for the diamond and one optimized for the metal ring shank. Same idea is used by many jewelry photographers - an intense light for the diamond shot and softer lighting for a second shot to prevent blowing out the metal shank.  Mask in Photoshop layers to reveal the brighter diamond.

It's not complex and the car guys do it all the time to get the best lighting for the car glass VS the paint VS the chrome, etc.

Ed
Title: Re: Dispersion
Post by: KeyShot on July 02, 2010, 05:53:40 PM
Hello John,

The diamond material in KeyShot is physically based. If you take a real diamond and illuminate it with blue light it will be blue. You mention iridescence. Diamonds (at least in the normal cut and sizes) do not exhibit iridescence. The color shift you are seeing is purely due to dispersion. Dispersion does not change the wavelength of light but simply spreads it out (disperses it). If your light is blue then spreading it out will not create green or red. To get the fire in diamonds it is important with good lighting (jewelry photographers know that very well) and I would recommend smaller white lights for this purpose.

-- Henrik
Title: Re: Dispersion
Post by: Johnjoti on July 03, 2010, 12:58:59 AM
Hi all!
Sounds like a plan Ed!
I like the idea of using different HDR for separate coverage of diamonds and gold. Imagine that I want to do animation with a diamond ring. It will take 100 frames for a diamond, and 100 personnel for the gold can be night time. Then process them in Photoshop, this is another day!
Is it possible to use simultaneously different HDRs in the Keyshot ? One of
optimized for the layer with diamonds, the other a layer of gold? If not, Will there be such a possibility in the near future??

Henrik
All still have a need to review the material diamond. Something is amiss...
Colored fire in diamonds look as if they watered down white paint. They are not clear, diluted color

"The diamond material in KeyShot is physically based" Maybe this is too much? May be a create additional material "fake" ? for concerned about the jewelry photographers???

Thanks

Title: Re: Dispersion
Post by: Johnjoti on July 06, 2010, 03:56:24 AM
Dear KeyShot. What do you make of this idea?
Title: Re: Dispersion
Post by: ben10 on July 06, 2010, 12:45:25 PM
1. Weird, you have provided an actual pictures that uses the same color and then you will insist that keyshot should not use that kind of colors? It actually match some of the pictures you've provided
2.if you tried to lower pixel filter size to 1, the default is 1.5 and play with gamma in environment and gamma in image/realtime tab you will achieve a very sharp render....you also need to have a very good hdri and very good model
Title: Re: Dispersion
Post by: Ed on July 07, 2010, 03:37:52 PM
Just for fun I made a render with the diamond set in a brushed finish titanium band.  One render pass and no post work.  

I adjusted the ABBE down until I just started to see dispersion (I probably went a little too far).  I could have gone further, but I think that would not look natural at all.  

A 400% enlargement in PS of my image shows the color range in the stone.  Again, the HDRI is a big factor for diamonds.  I'm happy with the result after a little experimentation.

It's interesting to visit the Tiffany & Co. website and look at diamonds.  Little to no dispersion that I can find. 

Ed
Title: Re: Dispersion
Post by: Johnjoti on July 28, 2010, 08:31:29 PM
Identical HDRs and material settings

KeyShot
(http://img828.imageshack.us/img828/2391/3diamonds74.jpg) (http://img828.imageshack.us/i/3diamonds74.jpg/)

Аlternative advanced software
(http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/7817/28153526.jpg) (http://img28.imageshack.us/i/28153526.jpg/)

It's ostensive proof.



KeyShot
Go forward!!
Get off the dime !!
Title: Re: Dispersion
Post by: ben10 on July 28, 2010, 10:19:06 PM
Quote from: Johnjoti on July 02, 2010, 01:13:43 AM
turned out very nice diamond, but it's the best thing we can do keyshot.
You can use any HDR, can use any value Abbe, but will never see any green or aquamarine or orange ...

(http://img808.imageshack.us/img808/3488/diamonde.jpg) (http://img808.imageshack.us/i/diamonde.jpg/)


if you will not give a promise to make materials of good quality I am will forced to abandon work with KeyShot and will demand to return my money   :-\

Thanks understanding for my position

funny don't use green but you actually provided pictures that uses green...plus that blur in your render depends in gamma settings...decrease pixel filter size to 1.2 or 1...use a high quality hdr
Title: Re: Dispersion
Post by: Frank on July 30, 2010, 01:44:04 AM
Quote from: Johnjoti on July 28, 2010, 08:31:29 PM

Аlternative advanced software


cool

+1 for mat

Title: Re: Dispersion
Post by: Yanchen on August 29, 2010, 01:28:23 PM
Quote from: Frank on July 30, 2010, 01:44:04 AM
Quote from: Johnjoti on July 28, 2010, 08:31:29 PM

Аlternative advanced software


cool

+1 for mat



Very cool!! +2

====

KeyShot mat -1 :(
Title: Re: Dispersion
Post by: ben10 on September 01, 2010, 05:58:11 AM
Johnjoti

just bash and bash...it's not our problem if you can't use the program well. Upload your scene and I will show you how to render that right in keyshot. Abbe value is also dependent in your model's thickness so the units must be accurate.
Title: Re: Dispersion
Post by: Ed on September 01, 2010, 10:43:31 AM
I agree with ben10 - upload the model if you truly want help.

Can't say it enough times - there are a few variables involved, but it's not difficult at all.

Ed

Title: Re: Dispersion
Post by: Yanchen on September 03, 2010, 06:58:21 PM
very nice Ed!!
+2
Title: Re: Dispersion
Post by: Johnjoti on September 07, 2010, 05:13:59 PM
Ed
You used multicolored HDR on the image Random Diamonds 2.png? And metal will be multicolored? LOL
Title: Re: Dispersion
Post by: Johnjoti on September 07, 2010, 06:13:46 PM
Quote from: ben10 on September 01, 2010, 05:58:11 AM
Johnjoti

just bash and bash...it's not our problem if you can't use the program well. Upload your scene and I will show you how to render that right in keyshot. Abbe value is also dependent in your model's thickness so the units must be accurate.

Keyshot2
HDR
(http://img693.imageshack.us/img693%3Cbr%20/%3E/9931/chromestudionew.th.jpg) (http://img693.imageshack.us/i/chromestudionew.jpg/)
(http://img833.imageshack.us/img833/1065/gemskeyshot2.jpg) (http://img833.imageshack.us/i/gemskeyshot2.jpg/)

Аlternative soft
HDR
(http://img693.imageshack.us/img693%3Cbr%20/%3E/9931/chromestudionew.th.jpg) (http://img693.imageshack.us/i/chromestudionew.jpg/)
(http://img543.imageshack.us/img543/1198/gemslternativesoft.jpg) (http://img543.imageshack.us/i/gemslternativesoft.jpg/)



Keyshot2
HDR
(http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/7425/blurredstudio.th.jpg) (http://img72.imageshack.us/i/blurredstudio.jpg/)
(http://img812.imageshack.us/img812/1065/gemskeyshot2.jpg) (http://img812.imageshack.us/i/gemskeyshot2.jpg/)

Аlternative soft
HDR
(http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/7425/blurredstudio.th.jpg) (http://img72.imageshack.us/i/blurredstudio.jpg/)(http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/1198/gemslternativesoft.jpg) (http://img820.imageshack.us/i/gemslternativesoft.jpg/)



QuoteUpload your scene and I will show you how to render that right in keyshot

Ok, show my excellent render please, or the same as my render "alternative soft"
use this HDRI:

(http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/7425/blurredstudio.th.jpg) (http://img72.imageshack.us/i/blurredstudio.jpg/)



Two scenes and both HDRs
http://rapidshare.com/files/417755617/scene.rar.html
Title: Re: Dispersion
Post by: Ed on September 07, 2010, 06:17:48 PM
No, the HDRI is not multicolor.

The color in the diamonds is the dispersion.

An excellent article on dispersion, published by the GIA, is here:

http://www.gia.edu/research-resources/cut-microsite-pdfs/diamond-optics-part-2.pdf

The last three pages are especially of interest for anyone who renders diamonds.

Ed
Title: Re: Dispersion
Post by: Johnjoti on September 07, 2010, 07:11:25 PM
QuoteNo, the HDRI is not multicolor.

The color in the diamonds is the dispersion.

Share please HDR and scene


QuoteAn excellent article on dispersion, published by the GIA

That's so!

I hope Keyshot developers will read this article and draw conclusion in respect of diamond material
Title: Re: Dispersion
Post by: Ed on September 07, 2010, 10:14:53 PM
The HDRI is one I spent several hours developing, and because it is an asset of my company, I'm unable to share it.

In my opinion, an HDRI for diamonds needs 8 to 12 separate lights - much like the multiple mini-spotlights used to display jewelry in a store.  The large white panels in your example HDR are a step in the right direction, but these large areas of even light are not going to give the best result.

Finally, I don't know why you are posting renders from another program.  Are these supposed to be the ultimate example of a diamond?  They look far too colorful and saturated.  Even the KeyShot examples I posted have the dispersion set too high - I exaggerated the ABBE setting to make the point you can adjust KeyShot to have as much as you want.  When I look at photos from the top diamond sellers (and they can afford the best photographers) I don't see the exaggerated dispersion as shown in your examples.

Don't blame KeyShot for not trying to produce a result that is artificial.  The fire in a diamond is the result of movement - either the diamond, the lights, or the observer.  In a static situation, such as a single frame render, the dispersion is subtle.  If I could animate the turntable in my render, the fire would be dramatic. 

Good luck and keep experimenting with various HDRs as this is a major factor in how diamonds will turn out.

Ed
Title: Re: Dispersion
Post by: Robert V. on September 07, 2010, 10:36:41 PM
Could you tell us if you used special software for creating your HDR?
Title: Re: Dispersion
Post by: KeyShot on September 08, 2010, 01:15:38 AM
Johnjoti,

Diamonds are a dielectric material, and the physics is quite simple. KeyShot uses the exact equations to compute reflections and refractions in diamonds. The abbe number is used to compute the wavelength dependence for refraction, and finally the transmission color take into account absorption within the diamond.
You really do not need much else to describe a diamond. The article talks about the fire, which you can control with the abbe number. If you make the abbe number very low then you can create the exaggerated fire effects that you are looking for. Also, remember that the position of the lights are critical to the appearance of diamonds. You cannot compare rendered results with other programs without having precise control over the lighting.

I should also mention that KeyShot features the only rendering and lighting engine that have been verified by CIE (CIE 171:2006,Test Cases to Assess the Accuracy of Lightning Computer Program) as computing the correct lighting. The report is available as CIE 171:2006 report, 2006, ISBN 978 3 901906 47 3. Please note that several major rendering packages have been tested against these CIE testcases, but only Luxion's rendering engine was found to compute lighting correctly.

-- Henrik

Title: Re: Dispersion
Post by: Ed on September 08, 2010, 09:47:56 AM
Quote from: PredatorKS on September 07, 2010, 10:36:41 PM
Could you tell us if you used special software for creating your HDR?

I have Photoshop and HDR Light Studio. But for HDR creation & editing in my type of work I like to use the image editor in Artizen HDR ver 2.9.  It supports 32 bit .hdr format, has layers, and tone mapping.

Ed
Title: Re: Dispersion
Post by: Yanchen on September 08, 2010, 02:19:41 PM
Quote from: Johnjoti on September 07, 2010, 06:13:46 PM
Quote from: ben10 on September 01, 2010, 05:58:11 AM
Johnjoti

just bash and bash...it's not our problem if you can't use the program well. Upload your scene and I will show you how to render that right in keyshot. Abbe value is also dependent in your model's thickness so the units must be accurate.

Keyshot2
HDR
(http://img693.imageshack.us/img693%3Cbr%20/%3E/9931/chromestudionew.th.jpg) (http://img693.imageshack.us/i/chromestudionew.jpg/)
(http://img833.imageshack.us/img833/1065/gemskeyshot2.jpg) (http://img833.imageshack.us/i/gemskeyshot2.jpg/)

Аlternative soft
HDR
(http://img693.imageshack.us/img693%3Cbr%20/%3E/9931/chromestudionew.th.jpg) (http://img693.imageshack.us/i/chromestudionew.jpg/)
(http://img543.imageshack.us/img543/1198/gemslternativesoft.jpg) (http://img543.imageshack.us/i/gemslternativesoft.jpg/)



Keyshot2
HDR
(http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/7425/blurredstudio.th.jpg) (http://img72.imageshack.us/i/blurredstudio.jpg/)
(http://img812.imageshack.us/img812/1065/gemskeyshot2.jpg) (http://img812.imageshack.us/i/gemskeyshot2.jpg/)

Аlternative soft
HDR
(http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/7425/blurredstudio.th.jpg) (http://img72.imageshack.us/i/blurredstudio.jpg/)(http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/1198/gemslternativesoft.jpg) (http://img820.imageshack.us/i/gemslternativesoft.jpg/)



QuoteUpload your scene and I will show you how to render that right in keyshot

Ok, show my excellent render please, or the same as my render "alternative soft"
use this HDRI:

(http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/7425/blurredstudio.th.jpg) (http://img72.imageshack.us/i/blurredstudio.jpg/)



Two scenes and both HDRs
http://rapidshare.com/files/417755617/scene.rar.html

Swanky!!
What do you call this software?
Title: Re: Dispersion
Post by: Johnjoti on September 08, 2010, 04:30:31 PM
QuoteWhat do you call this software?
Write to PM or e-mail

Keyshot
I set against Keyshot2 to another soft. I used the same settings and same HDRI
(http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/7425/blurredstudio.th.jpg) (http://img72.imageshack.us/i/blurredstudio.jpg/) Two scenes and both HDRs http://rapidshare.com/files/417755617/scene.rar.html
In your program stones seems gray and not clear.
ABBE number be not answerable to get the beautiful fire effects
They can surely do better?

(http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/1065/gemskeyshot2.th.jpg) (http://img842.imageshack.us/i/gemskeyshot2.jpg/) Keyshot2

(http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/1198/gemslternativesoft.th.jpg) (http://img94.imageshack.us/i/gemslternativesoft.jpg/) Аlternative

QuoteDiamonds are a dielectric material, and the physics is quite simple
Is it possible heavy to create additional material diamond? At least the same as render alternative soft?
That'll do the trick!

QuoteI should also mention that KeyShot features the only rendering and lighting engine that have been verified by CIE
Probably they had a substandard diamond
Title: Re: Dispersion
Post by: JeffM on September 08, 2010, 05:09:57 PM
Here are some samples of what effects different environments can have on a diamond model.

The diamond model was rendered twice in each environment. Once with 0 abbe (off/no dispersion) and the second time with 25 abbe (lower abbe numbers show more dispersion).

First is an almost purely diffused studio environment leading to very little contrast and almost no "fire" (thumb nail of the environment shown below the images):
0 abbe
(http://www.keyshot.com/images/JeffM/Diamond_Diffuse_0abbe.jpg)
25 abbe
(http://www.keyshot.com/images/JeffM/Diamond_Diffuse_25abbe.jpg)
(http://www.keyshot.com/images/JeffM/Diffuse.jpg)

Many small spots of light from the ceiling and a contrasting background lead to much more fire:

(http://www.keyshot.com/images/JeffM/Diamond_Spots_0abbe.jpg)
(http://www.keyshot.com/images/JeffM/Diamond_Spots_25abbe.jpg)
(http://www.keyshot.com/images/JeffM/Spots.jpg)

This diffused environment has a more typical amount of contrast, but the lack of small points of light leads to less fire:

(http://www.keyshot.com/images/JeffM/Diamond_Diffuse2_0abbe.jpg)
(http://www.keyshot.com/images/JeffM/Diamond_Diffuse2_25abbe.jpg)
(http://www.keyshot.com/images/JeffM/Diffuse_2.jpg)

Adding a brighter light from the side brings out a bit more fire in the diamond:

(http://www.keyshot.com/images/JeffM/Diamond_Diffuse2SideLight_0abbe.jpg)
(http://www.keyshot.com/images/JeffM/Diamond_Diffuse2SideLight_25abbe.jpg)
(http://www.keyshot.com/images/JeffM/Diffuse_2_Side_Light.jpg)

A high contrast studio that you might use for chrome creates an interesting look:

(http://www.keyshot.com/images/JeffM/Diamond_ChromeStudio_0abbe.jpg)
(http://www.keyshot.com/images/JeffM/Diamond_ChromeStudio_25abbe.jpg)
(http://www.keyshot.com/images/JeffM/Chrome_Studio.jpg)

You can also exaggerate the dispersion/fire effect by setting a lower abbe value. Here's a couple shots using some of the environments from above with 10 abbe:

(http://www.keyshot.com/images/JeffM/Diamond_ChromeStudio_10abbe.jpg)
(http://www.keyshot.com/images/JeffM/Diamond_Diffuse2SideLight_10abbe.jpg)

I hope that helps illustrate the point that diamond renders are not automatic. They are a combination of lighting, camera angle and material settings (abbe number/ior).
Title: Re: Dispersion
Post by: Johnjoti on September 08, 2010, 05:18:51 PM
Thanks JeffM
It is interesting and instructive

But create additional material diamond pleeeeeeeeeaaaassssse!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Dispersion
Post by: JeffM on September 08, 2010, 05:24:49 PM
Quote from: Johnjoti on September 08, 2010, 05:18:51 PM
Thanks JeffM
It is interesting and instructive

But create additional material diamond pleeeeeeeeeaaaassssse!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Are you looking for additional white diamond materials with varying levels of "fire"? Are you trying to get anything else out of your diamond renders that the default diamond material is not accomplishing?

Just let me know and I'm happy to help.
Title: Re: Dispersion
Post by: Johnjoti on September 08, 2010, 11:32:56 PM
I've been experimenting with different settings of diamonds and used different HDRI. embedded material is a diamond does not give the result that I expect.
I saw a lot of very expensive large diamonds. If the diamond is of good quality it shines beautifully saturated multicolored fires
At this time, your material does not allows to customize a beautiful rich fires. It looks blurry or gray, abbe works poorly (((((

Please add a mat is the same as (alternative shoft)

Look diamond works in the alternative program.
Two scenes (Keyshot & Alternative) http://rapidshare.com/files/417755617/scene.rar.html
Title: Re: Dispersion
Post by: Johnjoti on September 09, 2010, 12:19:37 AM
At the present time their diamonds be best-of-breed.
Theirs mat is easily customizable for any HDRi & have effect
Title: Re: Dispersion
Post by: ben10 on September 10, 2010, 10:20:55 AM
about the contrast and shadow...you can play with the gamma in realtime tab and environment tab...right balance will create the effect you're looking for...there's no fixed settings...you should also reduce pixel filtering to 1-1.2....about that alternative renderer you don't need that much tweaking in settings coz it is somewhat unbiased or maybe a marketing strategy...maybe it's using brute force or path tracing idk....but you must admit it is slower....check out zigarettos and ed's images of diamond they are really impressive...you may ask them to share their scene and you may take a look at how they made that scene.
Title: Re: Dispersion
Post by: Johnjoti on September 10, 2010, 02:56:47 PM
Сonvulse!!!!!!   ;D :D ;D


sorry  :D

Quote from: Ed on July 01, 2010, 08:54:04 PM
and yes I work with small diamonds, but not 2 carat :)

Ed

Ed does not work with large stones. I guess he can't seen

"The tune" goes something like this
http://www.coldiamond.com/cross-of-light-diamond.html

try and do it in keyshot!!! and show us

QuoteABBE, HDRI, reduce pixel filtering...
LOL
I don't think that's good enough.


Title: Re: Dispersion
Post by: Ed on September 10, 2010, 03:40:23 PM
There's a LOT of lens flare in that animation giving it sparkle.  Lens flare is an artifact that is not going to show in a render.  Not saying a lens flare effect would be a bad idea for an optional filter in KeyShot, but the flare is created by the lens.

If you take a static screen shot of the animation, discount the lens flare, it's on par with previously posted KeyShot examples.

If those KeyShot examples were animated on a turntable, you would see much the same, except for the lens flare.

Ed
Title: Re: Dispersion
Post by: Johnjoti on September 10, 2010, 03:43:49 PM
Quote from: Johnjoti on September 10, 2010, 02:56:47 PM
Сonvulse!!!!!!   ;D :D ;D


sorry  :D

Quote from: Ed on July 01, 2010, 08:54:04 PM
and yes I work with small diamonds, but not 2 carat :)

Ed

Ed does not work with large stones. I guess he can't seen

"The tune" goes something like this
http://www.coldiamond.com/cross-of-light-diamond.html

try and do it in keyshot!!! and show us

QuoteABBE, HDRI, reduce pixel filtering...
LOL
I don't think that's good enough.

Keyshot diamond mat is underdeveloped!!
It stopped in the development with Hypershot 2008 :( :( :(
Title: Re: Dispersion
Post by: Johnjoti on September 10, 2010, 04:41:52 PM
Ed
You think only of oneself, about wedding rings with spark diamond...


Quotesparkle, lens flare, animation...
Of course. Why do you need it
Title: Re: Dispersion
Post by: Johnjoti on September 15, 2010, 06:42:27 AM
Quote from: 583 post_id=1162 date=1277780129Ideally it shall have a gradient of pure gray with highlight contrast as the main color + bright multicolored sparks of the classic color wheel + slightly reflection of the environment

That's about it.


I have a sneaking suspicion that the Keyshot going to succeed  ;)
Title: Re: Dispersion
Post by: Johnjoti on October 02, 2010, 10:58:52 AM
Hi all
KeyShot added new material gem in the 2.1
It differs from the old (dielectric) ?
I did not notice any difference ((((((((

In what, essentially, lies the difference?

Title: Re: Dispersion
Post by: KeyShot on October 02, 2010, 11:28:08 AM
It is easier to understand. The old solid glass was used for both liquids and gems, and it made more sense to made dedicated materials for gem, glass, and liquids. The dielectric material is indeed the old solid glass.
Title: Re: Dispersion
Post by: Johnjoti on October 02, 2010, 01:08:53 PM
I used black and white HDRi
(http://img693.imageshack.us/img693%3Cbr%20/%3E/9931/chromestudionew.th.jpg) (http://img693.imageshack.us/i/chromestudionew.jpg/)

(http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/2882/keyshotgem.jpg) (http://img80.imageshack.us/i/keyshotgem.jpg/)

Abbe number 10
Ray bounces 30
Pixel filter size 1

Nothing changed
The brown (dirty) color is still here

Title: Re: Dispersion
Post by: KeyShot on October 02, 2010, 01:31:56 PM
If you can send your model and hdri to support@luxion.com then we can take a look at it.
Title: Re: Dispersion
Post by: Johnjoti on October 03, 2010, 08:26:55 AM
I send you model and HDRi

but diamond should look like this:

alternative soft
(http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/939/alternative.jpg) (http://img413.imageshack.us/i/alternative.jpg/)

or

(http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/4096/alternativegem.jpg) (http://img59.imageshack.us/i/alternativegem.jpg/)

HDRi
(http://img693.imageshack.us/img693%3Cbr%20/%3E/9931/chromestudionew.th.jpg) (http://img693.imageshack.us/i/chromestudionew.jpg/)

Thanks
Title: Re: Dispersion
Post by: Johnjoti on October 15, 2010, 08:46:40 AM
KeyShot
What news?
Title: Re: Dispersion
Post by: Johnjoti on October 16, 2010, 07:51:43 PM
Am I being a bore?

Ok I will not press the point  :'(
Title: Re: Dispersion
Post by: JeffM on December 02, 2010, 05:10:19 PM
John,

Here's an example of the high contrast and richly colored dispersion type diamonds, like you had posted above.

20 ABBE
(http://www.keyshot.com/images/JeffM/gem1.jpg)

10 ABBE
(http://www.keyshot.com/images/JeffM/gem2.jpg)

For this effect you just need to keep your realtime gamma low and adjust the ABBE. Also adjust the brightness and gamma of the environment itself for further control.