Hey Guys,
one of my customers requested a new Workstation for keyshot presentation and fast rendering. They want to present a range of Products in different colourschemes and render them quickly for potential buyers.
The Budget is 4000
I have great success building workstations around the evga sr-2 motherboard. It will handle two six core xeon processors and loads of ram. All the cores are great for rendering in Keyshot or max. I have attached a sample build sheet.
I would also look at refurbished/renewed HP Z820 workstations.
We got one for just under 4000 euros (excl. VAT) through an HP partner. It has 2 Xeon E5-2680 CPUs, 32GB RAM, a 240GB Intel SSD, a Quadro 4000 and W7 Pro 64 bit. It also came with the remaining 2.5 year full HP onsite warranty.
Sometimes there are really superb deals on these refurbished beasts, that even a DIY build cannot beat. ;)
Dries
...or the DELL outlet as well. They just had a dual 8-core T7600 for $3400.
If you want to build, I suggest moving to a dual socket 2011 motherboard. Newegg has several ASUS and Supermicro boards in that price range. Then choose a pair of E5-2650 8-Core cpu's. They should be at least 20% faster than the old generation X5660. The best part of that is you get 4 more cores (8 with hyperthreading) for the same price.
You might also consider a Supermicro barebones workstation like the 7047A. It's a big case with power supply and dual socket motherboard ready to go. Just add the memory, cpu's and video card...etc.
If that box is strictly for KeyShot, then consider a cheaper video card and up the CPU GHz.
My $0.02
-Brian Cranston
Does your client really need one powerful workstation? Will he do live renderings for customers?
If not, you could also get 32 cores (or more) worth of network rendering.
Bang for buck i7 is a lot more interesting than Xeon.
If your client is interested in a multi-system rendering setup, he can also get e.g. 4 dedicated i7-3770k rendering machines (or wait a bit for Intel Haswell to arrive). That will cost a lot less than a dual Xeon E5 setup and actually perform better for non-live rendering. You can also overclock them mildly to squeeze out even more performance.
Dries
Also look into the "RenderBOXX". That's on my list. It sits alone on top of your existing computer, and has I believe up to 72 or more cores.
Bill G
I suggested the x5600 series six core processors vs the new eight core because of overclocking. I don't believe that any of the workstation boards for the eight core cpu's have overclocking features.
Thanks you all for the very helpfull repost.
I've talk to the customer and he is increasing his budget up to 6000
The current Setup would be:
2x Intel Xeon E5- 2687W
2x Kingston HyperX 24GB
1X Nvidia Quadro K2000
1X Corsair HX1050 1050W
1X Lian Li PC-A75X Tower
1x SuperMicro X9DAE Motherboard
1x Samsung 840 Pro Series 256GB or 1x Seagate Barracuda Sata 2TB+ 1x Samsung 840 Pro Series 128GB (for the same Price)
1x LG BH10L S38 BluRay
1x Windows 7 Pro
Am I Missing something? CPU-Cooling maybe? Am I doing something completely wrong?
Thanks!
Subclub, does it have to be a single system solution?
Is a network rendering setup also good?
For the same money, network rendering with Intel i7 machines (e.g. 3770) can (easily) be twice as fast as that dual Xeon E5 workstation.
Of course for live rendering sessions (when you're running KeyShot in front of customers) the workstation is the better option, as network rendering cannot be used for the realtime rendering.
Dries
Unfortunately it has to be one Workstation. I ve tried to explain him what the benefits of a network solution would be, but the customer insists to go with one workstation. That's why has increased the budget from 4000 to 6000.
Okay, then your CPU selection is probably the best there is performance wise.
Personally, I would buy it refurbished, but maybe I'm just a cheapskate. :)
For me a top of the line dual Xeon machine would only make sense if you plan to do a LOT of renderings constantly (or use it for other computationally expensive stuff).
I'm using a dual Xeon E5-2680 machine daily. I'm not constantly rendering myself, but we also have network rendering and all render jobs by other users are mostly handled by my machine through network rendering. So all in all it's a pretty occupied machine...
Dries
I would go evga sr-x which is a workstation board instead of a server board. Make sure your case is big enough for any of these dual socket boards.
The samsung pro series ssd's are fantastic and would stick with one of those for your boot drive.
I build all of my companies pc's and only use Lian-Li cases. They might be a bit more expensive but the quality is much better. I used the Lian-Li PC-D8000 for my last build (which is my current 3D rig) and it is too big! The case is twice as wide as a normal atx case.
If you aren't looking at overclocking (which I don't think that you can do with the 8 core chips) air cooling would be sufficient. As far as air cooling focus on low noise solutions. Especially if the renderings will be done with customers present.
Do you really need a bluray drive? I have one in my pc at work and never use it for burning or reading bluray discs.
I agree with DriesV look for processors on ebay.
Good luck with your build!!
I totally agree with the Lian-Li cases. Datel Systems, in San Diego, California, has built all of my custom workstations. Absolutely top build quality and bulletproof, with only the best components. They use Lian-Li aluminum cases for all their workstations. My latest has five fans, which is just a bit noisy, but I'm used to it. For reference, since I can't easily locate the model number, the case measures 8.5" wide, 23" high and 24" deep. And it's stuffed! I made a rolling platform with large casters to make it easier to move, as it's about 50 pounds. The neatest thing is a lidded panel on the top/front for 4 USB's, a FireWire and mic/headphone. Right where it's easy to get to.
FYI- it's about 3 years old now, with Xeon dual quad cores, Win7x64, 16 gigs of RAM and four hard drives totalling 7.5 TB. My next box (soon, also by Datel) will use SSI. I'm planning on using a RenderBOXX.
Bill G
Bill, I'm just wondering...
Why are you considering a RenderBOXX based on Xeon for network rendering support, as opposed to a bunch of i7 machines?
The latter solution surely is a lot more cost-effective. Do you have specific office space constraints? Do you want to pack the most processing power on the smallest possible footprint?
I'm just curious to know what your motivation might be... :)
Dries
I totally agree on the i7 vs. xeon bang for the buck.
Something to consider in the cost is managing the machines/software on each machine. We have an render farm of 8 (or 9?) machines/ 192 cores. Doing that with i7s would approx. double the number of machines, which means 8 more computers to load/manage windows 7, vray, keyshot network rendering, etc. on. Its a lot of work, and I can understand how the additional cost of dual CPUs in the computer could offset the trouble associated with double the number of computers to manage.
Hi Dries;
Actually, my plan is later this year, maybe. My box is doing fine as is, except my 180 GB C Drive in in the red with only 12 GB left! And nothing but apps! My first plan as soon as I can let it go for a couple of days is to have Datel install an SSI, and clone the C, as things are running a bit slower now.
At Siggraph I was looking at the RenderBOXX, which was running KeyShot at hyper-speed. It had, if I remember, 72 cores. Have not checked prices lately, but I think it was about $4k, which would be a lot less then a new computer, and I can plug it in right now. But I'll spec things out later this year when and if the time comes. I don't do computational or FEA stuff, so SolidWorks, KeyShot and CS5 are my primary apps. The core count is critical for me as KS has become such a large part of my business.
Thanks for the advice, and I'll certainly look into it...
Bill G
Bill,
Mmh...72 (physical) Xeon cores for $4k? I find that pretty hard to believe. ???
I just ran the configurator for RENDERPRO on boxxtech.com.
The cheapest 16 physical cores (32 logical) configuration -based on dual Xeon E5-2650 (max. turbo 2.8GHz)- I could make totalled at around $6400.
Theoretically extending that to 72 physical cores would total at $28800! :o
On the other hand:
A currently top of the line 4 core i7 3770 (max. turbo 3.9GHz) machine with 16GB RAM and W7 64 bit can be had for $1k easily.
For a 72 core configuration you would need 18 of those, totalling at $18000. That's a lot cheaper and actually much more powerful too (3.9GHz vs 2.8GHz).
Granted, managing 18 machines is more of a hassle than 4 to 5 workstations, but with identical machines you can eliminate most of that through network deployment and management solutions.
btw, that 18 machine i7 network rendering setup would equal around 1000fps camera scene bench score. 8)
That $28800 Xeon setup would score 650fps to 700fps, I guess... (extrapolation based on performance figures on cpubenchmark.net)
If you want equal render performance with RENDERPRO you'd be looking at spending around +$40k easily...
Oh, and i7 3770 is much more energy-efficient than Xeon E5 too. 8) So in the long run -despite having more machines- the i7 solution should be cheaper to run.
greetings,
Dries
Yikes! I didn't run the numbers! You are so right- there are better options for sure! And thanks for the constructive comments, as I think many of us are in search of a balanced solution now that KeyShot has become such a major player for us. But few of us are in the big leagues, myself certainly included. Maybe we could prod Luxion into offering an optimized "KeyShooter"!
Bill G
Speedster, if you are looking to swap your hdd to an ssd take a look at something like this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820239050
It's a upgrade kit that includes the drive, mount, software and external usb enclosure. With your pc off, put the ssd into the usb enclosure, plug it in, boot up with the cd your optical drive and it will boot to a tool that will allow you to clone your existing drive to the ssd. After it's done swap the hdd's and you are all set with your new drive. Then keep the software and enclosure to use again. I have used this same kit many times over with different ssd drives and it works great.
Steve
Hi Speedster, I did the HDD to SSD swap myself a month or two ago. I bought Crucial's 250GB SSD with the transfer kit, and had myself up and running in under 30 minutes. My system is quicker doing everything than it was before.
I've looked at the RENDERBOXX solution too. It is pricey, but I currently have a BOXX system and they are fantastic. Now that I'm on my own as a designer, anytime I'm tinkering with computers I'm not earning a living. I'm a tinkerer by nature, and it was hard not to build my own system knowing I could save a chunk of change. But, the BOXX system had run nearly flawlessly for a year and a half now (it's always on 24 hr a day). The one issue I had was the center of one of the USB ports in the front panel broke. I called BOXX, and they overnight-ed me an entire new front panel that I swapped out in 10 mins. Then they called and emailed to make sure it was all working (they even offered to walk me through the install over the phone too!).
I'm definitely a fan of theirs, despite the premium on their systems.
What about this?
Dell PowerEdge R210 II Ultra-compact Rack Server (http://www.dell.com/us/business/p/poweredge-r210-2/pd)
It can be configured with Xeon E3-1270 v2 (equivalent in speed and price of i7 3770), +8GB RAM, SSD drives and comes with Windows Server 2012 Essentials.
It's a server node in 1U form factor (very slim!) that you can put into any standard server rack.
Quite moderately priced too...
A bunch of these is what our preferred DTP agency is using for in-house rendering. They have 2 racks stuffed with these babies. :)
Dries
Quote from: DriesV on April 26, 2013, 12:46:58 AM
btw, that 18 machine i7 network rendering setup would equal around 1000fps camera scene bench score. 8)
That $28800 Xeon setup would score 650fps to 700fps, I guess... (extrapolation based on performance figures on cpubenchmark.net)
Someone should probably devise a simple network rendering benchmark...
I imagine the pendulum swing animation @ 3200x1800, no frame output and max samples of 32 would be a good test. I just tried it and it took 1:51.