KeyShot Forum

Hello everyone,

I need a little bit of assistance. These are not my renders. How do I achieve diamond ring renders like these? These renders are from www.RingRender.com they also have video (Amazing stuff). I haven't seen any jewelry renders like is on the forum. Is this KS or some other software. If there is a way to achieve this in KS can anyone lend a helping hand? Can KeyShot produce diamonds like these? I have tried several times but I just cant get it to work. I posted this before and got few responses, maybe its not possible. Can anyone post a diamond render that can compete with these or that is better?

All of the renders that I have seen on KS have been awesome don't misunderstand me, but I just want to be able to render my jewelry like this.

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nice diamond rings renders but CG hand looks  crap to me..whats the point of even putting it in there?!

..I am sure KS can achieve this quality..if not better...as well

Quote from: evilmaul on August 14, 2013, 11:00:41 AM
nice diamond rings renders but CG hand looks  crap to me..whats the point of even putting it in there?!

..I am sure KS can achieve this quality..if not better...as well

I hope so. Can you give it a try? Is there anyway to get a tutorial or webinar from KeyShot?

By the way your CG images are fantastic, I admire your work.

Go to:

http://www.keyshot.com/gallery/

and select category Jewelry for starters.

Ed

Quote from: Ed on August 14, 2013, 11:30:38 AM
Go to:

http://www.keyshot.com/gallery/

and select category Jewelry for starters.

Ed

Thanks ED,

I been there already, by the way the last diamond ring render, with the 2 diamond rings, in the Jewelry category is my render. No disrespect, I just want some help with my craft.

Ed, do you think the renders in the KS jewelry category look better than the renders in this post?

Diamond,

It looks like you have a pretty good handle on how to make a diamond ring render :)   ( I have a couple of rings in the Gallery as well).

I'm familiar with the web site you reference below.  IMHO those are very good renders (hand aside as evilmaul noted).

Which looks better?   I'd say it depends on the look you are after.  Personally, I don't like for example the Tiffany style of ring photography (render?) where the ring has low contrast and looks washed out.  But in their case I guess the name alone sells the product.

I would post your render here and ask for feedback on the specific image.  It's hard to say what could use improvement without seeing your render and a reference on what you wish to achieve.

But the short answer is, I see no reason why KS can't duplicate your reference images.  As you know, the HDRI is 90% of the outcome when it comes to jewelry renders.

Ed

I'd say with the same model(s) and lighting you would get the same results after some tweaking. Do you have a fully detailed diamond ring (preferred with fillets) you could share with the rest of us? I'd like to give it a go.

Quote from: Chad Holton on August 14, 2013, 12:10:35 PM
I'd say with the same model(s) and lighting you would get the same results after some tweaking. Do you have a fully detailed diamond ring (preferred with fillets) you could share with the rest of us? I'd like to give it a go.

Me too, I would like to give it a try if possible.  :)

Abed

Quote from: Chad Holton on August 14, 2013, 12:10:35 PM
I'd say with the same model(s) and lighting you would get the same results after some tweaking. Do you have a fully detailed diamond ring (preferred with fillets) you could share with the rest of us? I'd like to give it a go.

Here is a Diamond ring that you guys can render.

Can KS make a webinar or tutorial on this topic with pointer that can help us achieve renders like the ones i posted? Can someone pass the message please.

I'll be back in 24 hours.  It will be interesting to see what everyone comes up with :)

Ed

I'm in ! I love a good challenge.
Tim

i am not into this kind of renders but here is my 5 min setup contribution  ;D
interactive render...still noisy..as it needed to run longer but there you go

M

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its a lil underexposed compared to the first image you posted...but not too far if you spend a 5 more minutes on it :D

There is a webinar on jewelry already:
http://youtu.be/5GfrQggv0LY

Here is mine - also in 5 min - with a little warmer lighting, internal culling checked, Abbe # at 55 and 24 ray bounces.

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Sorry for my English  :-[ . Here is the test I just realized on KS 4.0 with patches on Photoshops CS 6.
Duration=20 min

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Quote from: gbaillot on August 15, 2013, 05:27:15 AM
Sorry for my English  :-[ . Here is the test I just realized on KS 4.0 with patches on Photoshops CS 6.
Duration=20 min

Looks good. Can you share what you did? (Settings? HDR? Background? lighting?).

Quote from: evilmaul on August 14, 2013, 06:01:02 PM
i am not into this kind of renders but here is my 5 min setup contribution  ;D
interactive render...still noisy..as it needed to run longer but there you go

M

Very clean. Metal looks good diamonds not so great. Can you share what you did? (Settings? HDR? Background? lighting?). Thanks again.

Here's my attempt.
There's no dispersion in the gems though...

With 24 ray bounces KeyShot becomes VERY unresponsive if I enable dispersion (abbe above 0) for the gems. :-\
Anyone else getting this too?

Dries

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Dries,

My 12 core PC hangs up if I go beyond 10 ray bounces on the diamond material.  On previous KS versions I could go 24 no problem.  Also my diamond material with KS 4.3.15 is missing the ABBE setting.  Looks like the Gloss setting is affecting dispersion, but in a weird way.  Perhaps I need to to a fresh install rather than an update.

Ed

There is a bug, and you will need to switch back to "roughness" in the preferences. This has been fixed in 4.2.

We will look into the performance issues.

Here's my take on the diamond ring.  Diamond may be a little dark because I can't go above 10 ray bounces when using the diamond material (see posting below).

Ed

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in my case i did nothing special..thats why i ve spent only 5 min on it :)
left shaders the same, white background , added ground plane and used  Light Tent White Open 3 2k2.hdz  env...lowering the brightness a bit
thats all


PS: I agree with the ray bounces settings from >12 the computer just dies silently  ;D

I'm a novice at jewellery but here's my two penn'orth..!

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Ah - should've resized it...  ::)

Here's the same ring, but this time with white color gems and dispersion.

Dries

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Quote from: DriesV on August 15, 2013, 09:05:42 AM
Here's the same ring, but this time with white color gems and dispersion.

Dries

Thats looks great! Are you willing to let us in one what you did. Did you post edit? Is that a custom HDR?

Straight out of KeyShot (no post work).
Started from a black HDRI and added pins in the HDR Editor.

Dries

Here's a 5 min setup version I worked on while I was eating lunch.

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Quote from: Robb63 on August 15, 2013, 10:17:39 AM
Here's a 5 min setup version I worked on while I was eating lunch.

I dont think that you would see this render in a magazine, It looks like a five minute render. Does anyone have time to show us how Keyshot can replicate the same render I posted at the beginning of this post? Does anyone know about BunkSpeed?

Another view from the same ring and HDRI.

Dries

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Thanks for uploading your file - I hope to get to play with it some tonight. Do you have an HDRI editor? Like Ed mentioned, the HDRI is 90% of the work. Another thing is to use multiple passes (usually 3: metal, diamond, clown). Where do you need help at? Maybe post your rendering of this ring as well, so we can help?

Quote from: Chad Holton on August 15, 2013, 12:54:50 PM
Thanks for uploading your file - I hope to get to play with it some tonight. Do you have an HDRI editor? Like Ed mentioned, the HDRI is 90% of the work. Another thing is to use multiple passes (usually 3: metal, diamond, clown). Where do you need help at? Maybe post your rendering of this ring as well, so we can help?

I will post my render, I have been playing around with the HDRI like Ed mentioned. My render does not look good, but I will post it in few.

More white in the diamond.

Dries

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QuoteDoes anyone know about BunkSpeed?

They may have their own forum.  This is the KeyShot Forum.
BG

Here's my 2nd submission.

I added a physical light in front of the ring.  This gave highlights on the smaller diamonds, regardless of HDR position.  In other words, the physical light makes the "sweet spot" in the HDR less critical.  The physical light also gives a better defined shadow which plants the ring better in the scene.

As Chad suggested, the large diamond, small diamonds, and ring shank were optimized using two different HDRs and settings.  The three passes were combined in Photoshop.  In PS I tweaked the curves and saturation of each layer until I was satisfied with the matching of the layers.  Of course if this were a project I was going to publish, I'd work up multiple versions of each pass to get better matching.

I'm not a photo retoucher by any means.  I like to get renders in one pass with a minimum of post work if possible.  In this case, if you're going for a particular look, then multiple passes is probably the way to go.

Your reference image is at the bottom.  The big unknown with the reference is how much post work was done.  A lot of variables if you're going for an exact match.

Ed

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Quote from: diamond on August 15, 2013, 12:02:53 PM

Quote from: Robb63 on August 15, 2013, 10:17:39 AM
Here's a 5 min setup version I worked on while I was eating lunch.

I dont think that you would see this render in a magazine, It looks like a five minute render. Does anyone have time to show us how Keyshot can replicate the same render I posted at the beginning of this post? Does anyone know about BunkSpeed?

Wow, that's a little harsh!! You're welcome for the effort, BTW

You know it really gets my goat when people do this...

Why don't you just learn the software like the rest of us and create your own renders, ones that you can be proud of because you alone did them ?

Even though it was not levelled at me, this comment made me really angry for some reason

QuoteI dont think that you would see this render in a magazine, It looks like a five minute render. Does anyone have time to show us how Keyshot can replicate the same render I posted at the beginning of this post? Does anyone know about BunkSpeed?

How dare you say that when someome has taken the time to produce a very nice (in my opinion) render ? It also takes my breath away that you haven't even shown any of your own yet !!!!

J

Quote from: Robb63 on August 15, 2013, 06:42:09 PM

Quote from: diamond on August 15, 2013, 12:02:53 PM

Quote from: Robb63 on August 15, 2013, 10:17:39 AM
Here's a 5 min setup version I worked on while I was eating lunch.

I dont think that you would see this render in a magazine, It looks like a five minute render. Does anyone have time to show us how Keyshot can replicate the same render I posted at the beginning of this post? Does anyone know about BunkSpeed?

Wow, that's a little harsh!! You're welcome for the effort, BTW

I apologize for being a JERK. I just have a lot going on right now with my business. Thank you for even taking the time out to assist me. I do appreciate the help that you and the other members give everyday. Please except my apologizes.

Quote from: The Metal Master on August 16, 2013, 02:46:11 AM
You know it really gets my goat when people do this...

Why don't you just learn the software like the rest of us and create your own renders, ones that you can be proud of because you alone did them ?

Even though it was not levelled at me, this comment made me really angry for some reason

QuoteI dont think that you would see this render in a magazine, It looks like a five minute render. Does anyone have time to show us how Keyshot can replicate the same render I posted at the beginning of this post? Does anyone know about BunkSpeed?

How dare you say that when someone has taken the time to produce a very nice (in my opinion) render ? It also takes my breath away that you haven't even shown any of your own yet !!!!

J

Im sorry that my comments made you feel this way. I sincerely apologize! I was a jerk and I admit it. You are right I need to put the time in and learn the software like everyone else. You really opened my eyes with you response. I feel like an @ss. Sometimes people think they can say anything on the internet because they dont have to see the other people, and that is exactly what I did. I would like to thank you and all he other members for the time they send helping everyone on the forum.

I would like to thank all of our forum members for being so helpful to each other. We are very lucky to have such a talented community so willing to help each other to improve their skills every day. Diamond, I appreciate and accept your apology. Like with any tool you will have to invest a little time and try new techniques to hone your specific look. Feel free to contact us directly and we will be happy to assist you. Send an e-mail to me at jeff@luxion.com and I will arrange an overview training.

it's always easy to blame the tools...and therefore the software....if you dont like KS go ahead and use another renderer.
Making comparisons is useless...... remember that the tools are just tools and what it makes the difference is the artist. Perhaps.....well I stop it here.

start note: I'm no expert in jewelry at all.

Firstly, trying to match pictures is pointless. As others have pointed out, we simply don't know what post work went into those renders. If I can spend half a week in Photoshop, sure I can match those images to a tee.

Secondly, those renders -at least to me- don't really look very photoreal. That fire in the diamond (dispersed light) seems a bit artificial to me. There's just WAY too much dispersion for it to look anything like a diamond. And somehow the look of those stones seems heavily tuned by hand.

Thirdly, please do post your own attempts on achieving this look... It would be cool to have at least a starting point that we (KS community) can surely help you improve upon.

Dries

Just to echo what Dries is saying....

As a jeweler, I have photographed and sold diamond rings.  I've also studied numerous articles on post processing jewelry photos, and looked at the photography/renders on high-end jewelry sites.  In summary, most jewelry photography/renders are not photo-real.   Like automotive advertising, they are selling on emotion and sex appeal.  They offer altered images of what the public expects to see, not what the camera captures.

When it comes to jewelry, my personal preference is to lean toward photo-real with a minimum of post work.  Look at Tiffany - images are so washed out and cyan tinted they look cartoon-like.  There are even tutorials on how to get the Tiffany look in PS.  I guess that's what the high-end industry expects.  I can't argue with success.

So if you're going for magazine cover images, you better be highly skilled in re-touching.  The issue with ring renders is there is considerable interaction of light and reflections.  So isolation and tweaking of stones and metal using passes looses some of that natural interaction.  Plus, no single "formula" will work on all images.  The HDR used for one ring often looks terrible on the next.

IMHO, rather than trying to match an existing image where there is no information about the work and techniques that went into it, I'd concentrate of producing the best image possible given the tools you have and skills you have.

Ed

Here's what I ended up with after playing with it for a bit. Two passes on this one. Used a modified version of the conference room for the diamonds and a slightly modified version of 3 Panels Tilted 2k for the metal. I'm close to being satisfied with it, may play with it a little more though.   ::)

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Looks great Chad.  Two passes seems to be the trick to bring out the best of the stone and the metal shank on these rings.  How many ray bounces?

Ed

Quote from: Ed on August 17, 2013, 09:00:45 PM
Looks great Chad.  Two passes seems to be the trick to bring out the best of the stone and the metal shank on these rings.  How many ray bounces?

Ed

Thanks Ed.  :) Ray bounces were @ 25.
Yes - I think so too. It's just easier to focus on each material with jewelry. Though, I still need to work on blending the passes together and the ground needs to be darker.. I think.

Quote from: Ed on August 15, 2013, 03:32:57 PM
Here's my 2nd submission.

I added a physical light in front of the ring.  This gave highlights on the smaller diamonds, regardless of HDR position.  In other words, the physical light makes the "sweet spot" in the HDR less critical.  The physical light also gives a better defined shadow which plants the ring better in the scene.

As Chad suggested, the large diamond, small diamonds, and ring shank were optimized using two different HDRs and settings.  The three passes were combined in Photoshop.  In PS I tweaked the curves and saturation of each layer until I was satisfied with the matching of the layers.  Of course if this were a project I was going to publish, I'd work up multiple versions of each pass to get better matching.

I'm not a photo retoucher by any means.  I like to get renders in one pass with a minimum of post work if possible.  In this case, if you're going for a particular look, then multiple passes is probably the way to go.

Your reference image is at the bottom.  The big unknown with the reference is how much post work was done.  A lot of variables if you're going for an exact match.

Ed

2nd image diamond looking very good what setting & enviornment u have use for this output.

Hitesh -

I used the following for this image:

Conference Room HDR tilted and de-saturated to 10% in the HDR Editor for the diamonds.

A black & white HDR for the ring shank.  Many of the B&W studio HDRs work fine.  I prefer one with soft edges - I think it looks more natural than sharp edges.

A 60 watt area light in front of the ring (un-check visible to the eye) gives better ground shadow definition and highlights to the small stones.

The Conference Room HDR alone does a good job, but the B&W HDR makes the ring shank reflections more simple and smooth.

Post work in Photoshop mainly consisted of adjusting saturation (less color saturation) and adjusting Curves.

Experimentation is the best teacher :)

Ed

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Another try (same environments as before):

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Trying to match the cam of Chad's latest attempt (nice image btw!).
Same HDRI as my previous renders.

1st image: Straight out of KeyShot. No postwork.
2nd image: Some curve edits and blending in Photoshop.

Dries

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First of all I would like to say great images from everyone who has done this.
I must admit this was tough for me. One I do not know what makes a good diamond. So lighting this was tough.
I too went with the conference room dome as my starting point.
I am happy with this image.
I will go back to vehicles now. They cause me less issues.....lol
Tim

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Very nice job Tim.  Yeah - jewelry has it's own challenges.

Did you use a clown pass to tweak sections independently?

Ed

Great work from all of you. Thanks so much for the support.

wow last few renders ffrom a bunch of you guys are just so gorgeous...well done all.

Quote from: Ed on August 18, 2013, 07:22:52 PM
Very nice job Tim.  Yeah - jewelry has it's own challenges.

Did you use a clown pass to tweak sections independently?

Ed

Hi Ed,
That was one render for the most part. I did do another just for the band in one section. I'll post the raw render tonight so you can see the difference between the two.
Talking with a few photographers they say diamonds are a bear and alot of photoshop is envolved to get those images.
Trust me when I say a lot of photoshop was NOT envolved in my image. I played with lighting for a day. I wasn't planing on doing that. I thought two seconds and I would have this lite ...lol  I was wrong...lol I kept telling myself let the software work for you  :o so I kept at it.
Having the word Bunkspeed dropped didn't help. That made me more determain to do this with one shot. >:(
Tim

You guys are killing it. Thanks again for all of your support. I don't think that Diamond has any idea what a superstar consultant crew he is getting advice from.

Quote from: Jeff Hayden on August 19, 2013, 09:54:26 PM
You guys are killing it. Thanks again for all of your support. I don't think that Diamond has any idea what a superstar consultant crew he is getting advice from.

It's quite remarkable that even with us all using the same model and adhering +/- to 'jewelry presentation conventions', the mood of each image is quite unique.
Still waiting on (an) image(s) from the topic starter though... ;)

Dries

QuoteI will go back to vehicles now. They cause me less issues.....lol

;D ;D ;D hahaaah excellent!

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my example with caustic enabled.

Antoine

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Hi Antoine,

I can't see any caustics in your image...
Did you insert a ground plane?
Try a ground plane with some roughness and pick a bright enough background color.

Dries

you mean caustic only revealed in reflections outward?

From wikipedia:

QuoteIn optics, a caustic or caustic network is the envelope of light rays reflected or refracted by a curved surface or object, or the projection of that envelope of rays on another surface.

So you need some (rough/diffuse) surface to scatter the caustics to make them visible.

Dries

bof bof...

I do not like the result

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I guess you rendered it with advanced settings?
Those "light blobs" are there because the caustic quality is too low...
In fact, you can crank the caustic quality up to 100.

For this particular scene, realtime rendering might work best though.

Dries

ok i try with caustic: 50

Here's a VR of the ring with same environments as before: http://keyshot.com/vr/DiamondRingTT/DiamondRing.html (http://keyshot.com/vr/DiamondRingTT/DiamondRing.html)

I added a hint of "bloom" to just the diamonds and also a depth pass with this one to control the DOF of the whole image.

I stop there. is too long and it does not improve the rendering quality or the overall impression in my opinion ...

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Ok, You guys really proved me wrong. Its going to take me a long time to achieve some these render you guys posted. Thanks for all the replies. I have been reading and taking notes on all the replies on his post. I will shout my mouth and continue to practice. Here is one of my renders or my ring. I would like to know what you guys Do Not like about it. I wanted to use area light but I have no idea how (Help). All advice and criticism are welcome. Thanks

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Looking pretty neat! ;)

Do you have KeyShot Pro?
My best advice is to play with the camera settings and HDR Editor for a while. For the HDR: start from a completely black HDR and fill it with pin lights as you see fit. Play, have a little fun! ;D
Btw, the highlight feature in the HDR Editor should be your best friend...

An area light wouldn't add much to the image. I think reflection and refraction wise a well balanced HDRI is going to work best. To accentuate shadows -and possibly caustics- a point light or IES light works great.

Dries

Quote from: diamond on August 21, 2013, 02:38:34 PM
Ok, You guys really proved me wrong. Its going to take me a long time to achieve some these render you guys posted. Thanks for all the replies. I have been reading and taking notes on all the replies on his post. I will shout my mouth and continue to practice. Here is one of my renders or my ring. I would like to know what you guys Do Not like about it. I wanted to use area light but I have no idea how (Help). All advice and criticism are welcome. Thanks

Glad you posted your work - I was starting to think you ran off with some free renderings of your ring. ;D

Your metal is looking pretty good but your diamonds need some pop. I would try what Dries said as well. Also, since you like the look of your reference images on page one - check out the HDR they are using and try and recreate it. You can see them very well in the metal reflection.  ;)  However, we're not sure if that's what they used on the diamonds though.  :-\   Also, unless this rendering if for T&Co, I would change the color of the ground to a different pastel color (if that's your taste).  :D Keep us updated on how it turns out.

Chad

My second test  :P
Keyshot 4.0 + Photoshop Cs6

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jolie atmosphere :) bravo

Those are my tests. I added AO on the 1st one. Frankly, at the end of the day, it all depends on how you want to present your product.

Abed

Jewelry week continues... ;D

Golden version (24k). Render straight out of KeyShot. Render time = 26 minutes.

Dries

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Quote from: abedsabeh on August 22, 2013, 03:49:16 AM
Those are my tests. I added AO on the 1st one. Frankly, at the end of the day, it all depends on how you want to present your product.

Abed

Very Nice! What is AO?

Quote from: DriesV on August 22, 2013, 07:01:02 AM
Jewelry week continues... ;D

Golden version (24k). Render straight out of KeyShot. Render time = 26 minutes.

Dries

This looks great.

Quote from: diamond on August 22, 2013, 10:55:43 AM

Very Nice! What is AO?

Ambient occlusion

Hello!

Here i my try :) I am new on this so please be nice hehe  8) ...
This made on 2 layers ( gems and metal).
Any suggestions?


Best reagrds
MN

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Quote from: abedsabeh on August 22, 2013, 03:49:16 AM
Those are my tests. I added AO on the 1st one. Frankly, at the end of the day, it all depends on how you want to present your product.

Abed

What HDR did you use for that? Your own or from KS?

A little late but here's my go. could have increased my DOF quality but didn't feel like waiting the extra time...

Diamond... Do we have permission to use your model on one of our splash screens?

Quote from: Rex on August 30, 2013, 12:28:30 PM
Diamond... Do we have permission to use your model on one of our splash screens?

Yes, the model is for the Key Shot community to use and enjoy.

Awesome images in here!

I'm super late to the party, but here's my attempt. Very little post work done.

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I am new to Keyshot and just came across this post, so gave it a go.

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Quote from: evilmaul on August 14, 2013, 11:00:41 AM
nice diamond rings renders but CG hand looks  crap to me..whats the point of even putting it in there?!

Yes and all it needed to look decent was a bump map.

I just realized this thread is almost three years old.  ::)

That is my glossy render. I posted on this forum a long time ago.

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Rally nice Chad! I like that fire in the diamond.