Hi Guys, i came back from my summer holidays...i missed keyshot a lot!! 8)
Here my new work ..Bugatti..
I hope you like..
regards
Aldo
cool car and render!!!
but how much photoshop you have in the back of the car?
it seems lights and plate arent in sync with the geometry
Looks nice. Wish you gave it some space around the vehicle.
Welcome back I hope you had a nice break.
Tim
Quote from: evilmaul on September 27, 2013, 04:10:02 PM
cool car and render!!!
but how much photoshop you have in the back of the car?
it seems lights and plate arent in sync with the geometry
well lights are from hdri environment,and the plate was added on ps,because i didn't like the original render plate effect.Btw i "pumped" original lights with some hazelnut effect..that is
Aldo
not talking about the lights...I like the lighting just that the rear seems very different from the render and the model, lights are bigger in the render, the exhausts are more rounded and a bunch of other things like mismatch of focus in different parts...the rear especially seem pretty much all photoshop from a real pic onto the render ;)
also not a fan of how you cropped the final render, chopping off the front tire and the other side too.
Overall a nice job but I wouldnt have posted the raw diffuse renders cause its easy to spot the differences
Quote from: evilmaul on September 28, 2013, 09:15:26 AM
...
also not a fan of how you cropped the final render, chopping off the front tire and the other side too.
Overall a nice job but I wouldnt have posted the raw diffuse renders cause its easy to spot the differences
I agree. Very confusing set of images... :)
Especially the wheels are puzzling me. In the diffuse/blue clay shots they look quite different from the rendered image: offset rotation, overall different geometry...
In fact, I'm spotting numerous such discrepancies in the wheel rims, tire profiles, exhaust, body panel seams...
I'm just curious like the rest how much of the final image is photoshop and what the base render looks like. :)
Dries
A conspiracy theory could be that you took a picture and tried to re-create it in 3D and only the clay-render is actual KeyShot ........................................
But I am not an American, so I'm not all that into such theories .. 8)
Well, i didn't answer before because i was demoralized and angry about what i read on the answers, and my idea was to not answer,..because it was something like "you must demonstrate it's real"!
there was also a post on the thread, that was telling..less or more " the only real keyshot render is the clay image, the other image could be keyshot render shot, covered with real images"..but this post was deleted i think from the author.
Well, all my keyshot renders are real and not fake clay image covered and cropped with real image. For sure i use reference image when i model and i renderize image; and help me only to get a render something like a real image and Bring the render shot near to reality!!
Usually i use to make clay images during my process woork, just to understand view position, light and bring me to understand what will be the final image; so during the modeling process, 3d is not the final is under working; example i modeled many exaust pipe on this bugatti, Wide, narrow, with rays, without rays , ..Rear bumper convex, less convex, more high, more rounded etc etc without parking sensor and with parking sensor, a little bugatti logo, a more bigger bugatti logo, more large, less large , with more thickness ,etc etc a licence plate rectangular, larger, less larger ..and sometime during the process i get a clay image!!so as on the clay rear view, many bump components was hided on that moment!!!!!
For what i think, a clay image it's only to show as a 3d model can be converted in a real render!!only this.
I bought a 280mb hdri from cgi tut,
i bought blue carbon textures from shutterstock to use on keyshot material to give idea of a real bugatti paint!
i got free grille textures from internet
i got free rear red and white light textures from internet
To get double sense of material steel and paint on wheel rims , i got an 0,5 mm Perimetric frame extrusion importing rims on Unigraphics. I used photoshop to modify light on final image, to get the image that i liked more.
So this is what i do when i do a render work and what i do always.
Aldo
No offence, but how do you explain the (very) strong resemblance of the car's rear with this photo? ???
The rear is an exact match to your render: the textures, environment, all highlights, shadow details, geometric details... The rims look identical too.
Sorry for my keen eye...
Quite clearly you blended your render with parts of this photo. I've got nothing against it per se, but at least be honest about it.
I even suspect you might have played the same trick on your Number 30 old Style (http://keyshot.com/forum/index.php?topic=6481.0).
Again...I've got nothing against tricks, but please mention them!
Most great renders have seen some post work, but an image where 50% of the render has been blended with photos I don't consider a KeyShot render anymore.
Please don't fool KeyShot users. Be honest about what is achieved through KeyShot and what is not.
Dries
I've gotta say Aldo, you perhaps should have been more honest about how much was KS render and how much was composited from a photograph !!
I mean the reflection on the back of the car is quite clearly from the photo Dries uploaded and by the looks of it, so is the carbon fibre texture...
Take a look, I had to flip the render image to match the photo BTW... sorry Aldo, but to me it's quite shocking. You know what you've got to remember is a lot of people on this forum are seasoned, experienced graphics professionals... Up until very recently, I myself had worked in this industry for nearly 20 years. What I'm trying to say is, we are hard to fool :-[
J
Here's another quite blatant similarity...
Dries
I really need to know something...
Do you employ these intricate compositing methods for all your images?
Which of your images are pure KeyShot renders and which are blended with photographic material?
Are any of your ultra realistic wheels/rims actually rendered (you'll know which ones I'm talking about...)?
I hope you can provide honest answers to these questions. The KeyShot forum members deserve to know... Because quite frankly -just like the Metal Master- I was quite shocked to find out about your deliberate deception here.
Dries
Since I am getting a lot of complaints from forum members I think it is only if you enlighten the audience. I always had some questions about your images, in particular when I looked at the rims and tires.
There is no problem to combine rendering with even heavy retouching - I know quite a few people who do this. But please be honest about it.
Here is another one you may want to explain:
http://keyshot.com/forum/index.php/topic,5153.msg22491.html#msg22491
This is more than just 'heavy retouching' though Thomas - it basically amounts to passing a photograph off as a KS render, that can clearly be seen in this thread here...
http://keyshot.com/forum/index.php/topic,6481.0.html (http://keyshot.com/forum/index.php/topic,6481.0.html)
Compare the photograph Dries uploaded to the supposed render, they are almost identical, even down to the rear flat tyre.
When you really scrutinise, its quite obvious, the right-hand front wheel is not masked correctly or the right-hand side rear one as well as other numerous discrepencies like odd shifts in focus for instance.
Honestly, I am so angry I could spit feathers... this kind of thing just makes a complete mockery of true 3D artisans/enthusiasts everywhere
Personally, I visit the forums to learn, not to judge.
But I am puzzled as well at some of the renders I see from various members.
I think KS should have two forum categories:
1) Amazing Shots (Renders)
2) Amazing Compositions (Render based)
I think a legitimate KS Render can have a photograph background, curves & color adjustments, jewelry sparkles, smoke, motion blur, etc. added in post.
I think a Composition based on a render involves sketching, painting, overlaying elements from a photo, etc. on top of a render.
The main difference is with #1, you can easily change the camera view and re-render with pretty much the same quality result. With #2, you can not.
The issue is, people come to the forum and galleries when evaluating which render program to purchase. When images are posted with no explanation of the post work involved, it implies this is something you can make essentially with KS. It implies this is an image you can manipulate in 3D space.
I've also seen renders that were posted in other render programs' forums as well - obviously to publicize their graphics business.
Again, I come to the forums to learn (and occasionally share). But if I see an image with no explanations, I'm likely to just move along. If I just want to look at images, there are many image sharing sites to view portfolios. I think a forum by definition has a different purpose and obligation to its viewers.
My $.02 worth.
Ed
QuoteI think KS should have two forum categories:
1) Amazing Shots (Renders)
2) Amazing Compositions (Render based)
That sounds like a good idea to me.
Or maybe an optional 'thread flag' to indicate whether the topic contains pure KeyShot renders or heavy compositions.
Still, I think honesty goes a long way...
Dries
Yes, but what this guys been doing doesn't fit any of those categories... he has been cheating, simple as that.
And If it wasn't for the fact that he (quite bizarrely and stupidly in my opinion) posted a split shot of clay/texture where you could clearly see huge discrepencies between geometry and actual 'render', then the posting of these sham images would have continued...
I will never comment on any of his images again, all credibility has been lost.
J >:(
I do remember Aldo`s work when he first joined the forum. Suddenly, almost overnight his imagery changed from amature to something much better. Now I understand why. It`s a shame, as some of his work was lovely to look at, even if it fooled me. The wasp, the rusty car work etc. :(
You've hit the nail on the head Skint... his work was mediocre, then all of a sudden it went to outstanding in one bound... I'm thinking of the car 'renders' with the ultra realistic wheels and tyres with grit, dirt and gravel on them. I was always a bit suspicious of them, they just didn't sit right with me.
The reason they looked photographic... is because they were, ahem... photographs :o
Honestly in all my years I have never ever seen anything so utterly blatant.
J
Aldo, I hope that at least your images on the KeyShot web gallery are genuine. With genuine I mean that all geometry is actually rendered, not substituted by photo fragments.
All of the other KeyShot gallery images are clearly KeyShot output and primarily showcase KeyShot's rendering capabilities.
(http://keyshot.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/gallery-0110.jpg)
(http://keyshot.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/gallery-0115.jpg)
(http://keyshot.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/gallery-0147.jpg)
(http://keyshot.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/gallery-0189.jpg)
(http://keyshot.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/gallery-0223.jpg)
Dries
Personally I think the 'Wasp' image is suspect, those textures look too photographic, too much of a leap from almost zero texture work in his stuff to this image, which I will admit, if it is all render, is outstanding...
J
take a look at this link and compare yet another of his 'works'
http://www.tineye.com/search/8f717bf89b8fe7340c52589a4384fa0165d4f89a/
there is a handy compare switch at the bottom of the screen
Oops...
(http://i4.minus.com/j5pIx9qTopbL6.jpg)
Dries
ooops indeed :-\. Aldo has some explaining to do lol
Wow - this is so wrong. I'm speechless at the moment.
Here's another one from almost a year ago...
http://www.tineye.com/search/show_match/9e06105ed23eafe4823b27f849a97c7b15feeebe/3bc131039d27791ed0a4acb2776de95165e0380c19f20bb1e6f6cbd768e5b6cc?m13=46.0225&m21=0.00013524&m22=1.01846&m23=2.3986&m11=1.01846&m12=-0.00013524 (http://www.tineye.com/search/show_match/9e06105ed23eafe4823b27f849a97c7b15feeebe/3bc131039d27791ed0a4acb2776de95165e0380c19f20bb1e6f6cbd768e5b6cc?m13=46.0225&m21=0.00013524&m22=1.01846&m23=2.3986&m11=1.01846&m12=-0.00013524)
Everything apart from parts of the body shell are photographic elements
J
And another... found this image on the first page of a Google search...
Hence the tight cropping! ;)
Dries
Quote from: The Metal Master on October 07, 2013, 06:44:01 AM
And another... found this image on the first page of a Google search...
Looks like the wheels are part of the backplate but the rest is a rendering? Something like this isn't as bad
but should definitely be mentioned when posted by the creator. As for some of the others, especially the Bugatti & #30... I'm still shaking my head. >:(
Yeah that's about the long and the short of it Chad... I don't agree with you though, I think its just as bad.
If this was a Photoshop skills forum, all would be ok, but it's not.
Also, If I were Luxion I would be concerned about copyright issues. the images that quite obviously are almost all photography need to be removed from this forum. Also, to me it in some way it 'hurts' the reputation of KS.
J
Dude!! I leave the forum for a while and when I came back... Like Chad said: I'm speechless... This is jaw dropping, now, I found the answer to my question that I've been asking myself for ever: how the hell this dude can achieve those rims and tires?? :o Mystery solved... I hope this experience will help us to be more honest with the work we show... ;)
Sergio
"... Also, If I were Luxion I would be concerned about copyright issues. the images that quite obviously are almost all photography need to be removed from this forum. Also, to me it in some way it 'hurts' the reputation of KS."
I agree strongly on both points.
Ed
obviously he has tried (and succeeded) to fool us around for quite some time. I've always doubded of his images but kept it quiet. Like someone has already said he has no clue of the professionals that frequent this forum and you Aldo are just a disgrace for the forum and the entire community. (this are the things that make me ashamed to be bear an italian name)
At the end you re not even that good at photoshop and this threads is just one of the proof... the whole image is all fake and a really bad one!
http://keyshot.com/forum/index.php/topic,6441.0.html
At least have the balls to apologize..since you have already tried to give us cheap excuses on this thread...or most likely you will just disappear (not a bad call either)
I wasnt going to write anything else after my post but after seeing whats has been discovered about the past works I just couldnt keep it inside. I hope this serves as a big life lesson.
Marco
I think that's well said Marco. I agree entirely.
I also had been a litlle bit suspicious about a lot of his recent stuff, especially rims and tires.
Take a look at this one... looks like the wheels and tires have again been lifted from a photo and filtered/treated (brake caliper colour change from yellow to red and addition of the horse logo), probably to make them look less photographic. The is the last one, I will not look for anymore deception as it's actually making me feel a bit sick.
J
This really is sad isn't it - I placed this guy on a pedestal along with other artists like Dries, Bill and Marco, i feel wounded and somehow cheated but not surprised, I feel as gutted as a fillet of fish :(
Martin
Hey Martin... there are other half decent artists you know... ;)
J
Quote from: Chad Holton on October 07, 2013, 07:24:39 AM
Looks like the wheels are part of the backplate but the rest is a rendering? Something like this isn't as bad but should definitely be mentioned when posted by the creator. As for some of the others, especially the Bugatti & #30... I'm still shaking my head. >:(
Not as bad as some of the other horrible stuff, but check out the tips he throws around for those asking how he did the rims and tires...
http://keyshot.com/forum/index.php/topic,4993.msg21687.html#msg21687 (http://keyshot.com/forum/index.php/topic,4993.msg21687.html#msg21687)
That information is
completely false. This behaviour is simply mischievous (dare I say evil?...)!! It goes against anything that a forum is about... It actually makes me really angry. >:(
Dries
Don't want you all to have to put any more energy into this than you already have. We take this type of behavior very seriously. Aldo's images have been removed from the Gallery.
Aldo, I believe you owe it to the people who have supported and encouraged you here an explanation and apology.
Josh
What a sad sad story this turns out to be ... there are no winners in this.
I understand that if you use post or composition images there is a degree .. 10% real vs 90% render .. I can think of situations where you'll even end up with 90% real vs 10% rendered, if you want to integrate the product you try to sell in a real life situation. There's no harm in doing so. Not telling you did so .. meh, whatever .. but if people ask about it PLEASE tell the truth. The thread I just re-read where someone asks about the tires and you start to explain how you did it while it's all photograph .. no no no no !
I must say that on the porche thread, I had serious doubts about the bumpiness of the cars hull ...
And indeed it is true that your work got from mediocre where I was able to give you hints and tips to make it better .. right to top notch photoreal render work .. almost overnight.
I always found it fishy, but now dude .. you dropped the ball .. and I hope you simply appologise for lying and for not telling the truth about your image and in the future just be honest about your work.
Perhaps the biggest loser in all this is Luxion cuz they have been advertising their product quite a while now, with images that are 95% stolen photographs .. that's serious ..
Think long and hard about what your next move will be .. cuz there is only 1 right thing to do now.
I think that after this debacle, Luxion / KeyShot should insist on having access, privately if necessary, to the original BIP for any scenes to be considered for their gallery. At least there would be more provenence to the work. Obviously this would not address the issue of the original 3D model having been 'lifted' from somewhere like GrabCad or similar without credit being given to the original creator..
Cliff
Quote from: PhilippeV8 on October 08, 2013, 12:19:25 AM
...
Perhaps the biggest loser in all this is Luxion cuz they have been advertising their product quite a while now, with images that are 95% stolen photographs .. that's serious ..
...
That is indeed the saddest part. :( What he's done is a complete insult for the Luxion team.
As for strict rules for gallery selection... Most KeyShot users use the tool in their business/office. So you expect them to behave...well...professionally.
Everyone should obey a professional ethics code. That's almost a given. You expect people to do that, and you trust them. When ethics fall...anything can happen. Like we just witnessed...
When I found that Bugatti Veyron photo I did have a 'GOTCHA!!' moment, because I strongly felt something was wrong. I sure hope I'll never have to play Hercule Poirot again! ;)
Dries
It's quite obvious that he didn't give a **** about KeyShot
When he came back from holiday, this is what he posted :
QuoteHi Guys, i came back from my summer holidays...i missed keyshot a lot!! 8)
Here my new work ..Bugatti..
I hope you like..
regards
Aldo
The word 'keyshot' should be swapped for 'Google'
... or Photoshop
LMFAO... <3 the flame
lol
HAHAHA... Sorry this is just hilarious!!! ;D
I was actually looking for cutout people and then I literally stumbled upon this:
(http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lumg5guMtF1qikgdeo1_1280.png)
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/--YJV_K8ONMU/UL_eJrOrOEI/AAAAAAAAEhE/emLod8N47Bc/s1600/mf1.png)
What are the chances, right?
Ref: http://keyshot.com/forum/index.php/topic,6441.msg30275.html#msg30275 (http://keyshot.com/forum/index.php/topic,6441.msg30275.html#msg30275)
Dries
QuoteOld Past Meets its Future...
i'm on the left side....
Maybe what he meant to say was that what he did render was on the left (white car) .. ?
Should I even bother finding the sence in all this ? :-\
Guys, I think you've been hit by a real Tsunami! What a pity!
Abed
So, have I got this right, that cutout bloke is not Tsunami ?
So, not only has he been uploading sham renders, he has been uploading sham images of himself !!!
That is truly, truly bizzare... I mean how f****** sad do you have to be to do that ?
J
Just been on CGTalk and there are two of his images on there that have been proved are mainly photographs (the old red ferrari and the white concept audi)
http://tsunami1972.cgsociety.org/gallery/ (http://tsunami1972.cgsociety.org/gallery/)
I am going to report them both as problematic images, the only thing is there doesn't seem to be a reporting procedure for things like this, only forum abuse etc
Oh and this is his profile photo... or is it ?
J
This is all so weird it's getting laughable. You could make a (bad) film about this, a really boring version of 'catch me if you can' or 'Thomas crown affair'. To Aldo I would just say... What's the point in being deceptive- ultimately you cheat yourself, and tend to piss people off along the way.
One good thing has come out of this for me..... I feel slightly better about my own (genuine) ability level. For me there have been 4 stand out forum members who's work has inspired me to keep pushing keyshot - metal master, Tim feher, evil maul and tsunami. Tsunamis post showing a black Porsche "James Dean... something or other" was a particular source of inspiration and drove me to produce a reasonable attempt at my first auto render. I purchased a decent range rover model and set about creating in depth custom materials - dirt around the skirtings, sand & gravel on the tyres, tyre marks on the sandy ground plane, etc etc. I even intend to 'beat up' the geometry a little bit in mudbox to add some dinks and surface imperfections. This process wouldn't have happened if I wasn't so inspired by tsunamis original post. I kind of wish you guys hadn't ousted Aldo until I had perfected my processes and reached the level of the photographs I was trying to equal. I'll post this wip image soon.
In the immortal words of Ali g
"Keep it real, aiiiiiight"
Ed
Talk about film .. "Catfish" comes to mind ...
( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catfish_(film) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catfish_(film)) )
Or 'The Usual Suspects'
I'm thinking Kaiser Soze... ;)
J
QuoteFor me there have been 4 stand out forum members who's work has inspired me to keep pushing keyshot - metal master, Tim feher, evil maul and tsunami
Thanks Edwardo, that's much appreciated - although I cannot think why I'm an inspiration...
And to be honest nobody 'outed' Aldo, he brought suspicion on himself by foolishly posting the clay renders of the Bugatti Veyron that were completely out of sync with the overlaid rendered image - that is the part I will
never understand, why did he do that ?
Anyway, I have a sneaky suspicion he will come back to the forum using a pseudonym and start posting again...
So if a newbie starts uploading renders with a profile name of 'Big Nasty Wave'.... be very, very vigilant...
J
Haha, yea Keizer sozé
Anyway, I think I'm gonna avoid this thread from now on - it's quite tiring. I preferred it when this was a 'happy' community with a cooperative spirit. My fear is that tsunamis actions will push people into a more defensive stance, less willing to share advise and tips. God knows, I need all the tips and advise I can get (from the true pros).
@ metal master: you seem particularly disgruntled, not that I blame you, it kind of undermines everything one has dedicated ones career to (or 50% of ones life to). But to look on the bright side, you are now the undisputed king (or master) of worn and beat up materials, and the realism they provide. Your wooden toy train and metal jigsaw rhino particularly stick in mind. Whilst I'm fairly new to 3d, I'm a seasoned 2d designer and manipulator of photographs. I've always had a keen eye for perfection through imperfections, which is why Aldo's work stood out for me with rusty rims, rivets, dinks, dents, dirt n'all, I commented quite frequently on this. My point is that your at this level legitimately!!! Therefore my respect for your abilities has increased even further since 'Tsunamigate'. I hope you take some solace in that. This whole fiasco isn't worth getting the old blood pressure boiling.
A wise man once said don't judge someone until you have walked a mile in their shoes. That way, when you DO judge them you are a mile away.....and have their shoes!
I think we can all learn something from that moral.
All the best
Jeremy Kyle
i used to look up to tsunamis renders, now all respect is gone. to all who follow the same practice, atleast be honest about it, this does nothing more than to hurt luxions reputation and yourself, correct me if im wrong, the images produced are used for marketing of keyshot.
ha, just read through this whole thread for a laugh.......people are strange beings sometimes. What a farce. I'll give him one thing, he's no bad at photoshop.
Quote from: The Metal Master on October 09, 2013, 05:54:43 AM
QuoteFor me there have been 4 stand out forum members who's work has inspired me to keep pushing keyshot - metal master, Tim feher, evil maul and tsunami
Thanks Edwardo, that's much appreciated - although I cannot think why I'm an inspiration...
And to be honest nobody 'outed' Aldo, he brought suspicion on himself by foolishly posting the clay renders of the Bugatti Veyron that were completely out of sync with the overlaid rendered image - that is the part I will never understand, why did he do that ?
Anyway, I have a sneaky suspicion he will come back to the forum using a pseudonym and start posting again...
So if a newbie starts uploading renders with a profile name of 'Big Nasty Wave'.... be very, very vigilant...
J
lol!
Bohhhhh
Selecta ?
craig daaaavid
Quote from: edwardo on July 09, 2015, 02:40:10 PM
craig daaaavid
this forum cracks me up, glad there is some humor XD
So i hope to see him again!
QuoteSo i hope to see him again!
Yeah, saw Craig David years ago, he was quite good live, he's playing the Basement in London at the end of this month...
J
Apparently the real Craig David hates, resents and blames the rubber-faced BoSelecta Craig David for ruining his career. Kind of tragic, but sort of funny. Either way, I'm glad to see this thread has morphed into absolute nonsense about a struggling singer and bizarre TV show - this thread was kind of founded on BS!
Im gonna stop talking sh!t and go play with the materials editor for a bit.
QuoteIm gonna stop talking sh!t and go play with the materials editor for a bit.
Spiffing idea, me too :)
LMAO
This was a great car to render