Had fun with modeling and rendering this wine glass for a quick exercise. After reading the tutorial/thread Dries put together quite a while back, I was inspired to play with glass and liquid, which can prove to be a challenge unless you're familiar with how the various materials work. See the thread here: https://www.keyshot.com/forum/index.php/topic,5263.0.html (https://www.keyshot.com/forum/index.php/topic,5263.0.html) Really enjoyed learning some and playing with this in KS.
Looking for feedback/suggestions on how to improve.
Thanks.
Hi will.
Definitely a good start.
I have two things:
1. Your backplate (or maybe the entire image) looks very low quality, due to hard compression. Take a look at that.
2. Try to notch up the brightness and contrast of your HDRI a bit. The lighting look a bit dark and flat.
I look forward to see how much you can push it :)
With a shot like this, I like to show some caustics. Put a light up above and get some refraction going on. Doesn't have to be a spotlight shooting down, just enough to get some wine bar ambiance happening.
Thanks guys, both for the feedback. Will implement asap and repost.
Well, here's another one. Not terribly impressed with it. Taking a simple object and making it look interesting is tougher than I thought it would be. Maybe the backdrop is detracting from it.
As you say yourself, I don't think you improved much... honestly I like the first one better.
The backplate is distracting and the wine looks very dark now. Did you try and do what Josh suggested?
I would go back to the dark backplate, introduce some rim lighting of the glass by doing a custom HDRI and get some caustics spreading around (great tip Josh :) )
If you can upload the ksp, I would love to give the scene a spin... if you are OK with that? :)
You also will want to attack this as a painting. You need to have a focal point then force our eye there first then have us look around. The second image looks like you do not have your ray bounces high enough. I would almost beat they are set at 6 you need to at least be at 16 bounces when having glass in a scene.
You thought just doing a glass of wine was gonna be easy....lol ;)
I'm with Esben on the ksp. with one exception we need to add our ksp back with image created from it. Also the image has no post done to it. Would be interesting to see how others would set this up.
Just a thought.
Tim
Quote from: feher on January 17, 2015, 05:18:19 AM
I'm with Esben on the ksp. with one exception we need to add our ksp back with image created from it. Also the image has no post done to it. Would be interesting to see how others would set this up.
+1
Quote from: Esben Oxholm on January 17, 2015, 03:58:26 AM
As you say yourself, I don't think you improved much... honestly I like the first one better.
The backplate is distracting and the wine looks very dark now. Did you try and do what Josh suggested?
I would go back to the dark backplate, introduce some rim lighting of the glass by doing a custom HDRI and get some caustics spreading around (great tip Josh :) )
If you can upload the ksp, I would love to give the scene a spin... if you are OK with that? :)
I did attempt what Josh suggested. I didn't think it responded the way it should have. Perhaps I was doing it wrong, hah.
As suggested, attached is the KSP exactly how it was on the second rendering. You'll see that I have some planes with light material in place that I tried using, but ended up turning off because I couldn't get them looking right.
I'd love to see how you improve this. I feel silly for struggling to make something that seems so simple, look good. Thanks for your suggestions.
** Also, I tried attaching the KSP as an attachment here to no avail... So, I'm trying Dropbox. Here's the download link: https://www.dropbox.com/s/3xd3wcxsui4b7we/Wine%20Glass.bip?dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/3xd3wcxsui4b7we/Wine%20Glass.bip?dl=0)
Quote from: feher on January 17, 2015, 05:18:19 AM
You also will want to attack this as a painting. You need to have a focal point then force our eye there first then have us look around. The second image looks like you do not have your ray bounces high enough. I would almost beat they are set at 6 you need to at least be at 16 bounces when having glass in a scene.
You thought just doing a glass of wine was gonna be easy....lol ;)
I'm with Esben on the ksp. with one exception we need to add our ksp back with image created from it. Also the image has no post done to it. Would be interesting to see how others would set this up.
Just a thought.
Tim
Yeah. With something so simple/sparse, the focal point suggestion makes sense. I had 12 Ray Bounces, but when I had it cranked up, I thought it looked odd.
Yes, I'm guilty for thinking this would be easier than It's proven to be.
You're right about no post. I'd like to learn to get as much out of KS as possible, but I know that using KS intelligently with the intention of doing post is the way to get the most out of the program.
Enough of my blabbering. Here's the DL link: https://www.dropbox.com/s/3xd3wcxsui4b7we/Wine%20Glass.bip?dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/3xd3wcxsui4b7we/Wine%20Glass.bip?dl=0)
Here we go.
Used the conference room dome. Tweaked it of course. Used a light plane but turned off reflection.
Here is the link to the KSP: http://we.tl/emcIuIssje
Thanks Tim. I see what you mean. More interesting for sure. I'm going to crack open that KSP and see what you did. I appreciate it!
The addition of that light plane makes all the difference. Good tip!
Attached is a redo. I tried implementing some of Tim's feedback.
1 major question/issue is this: I have a plane with area diffuse light applied. It lights the model well, but the reflection of that light is so distracting and ugly so I turned it off. Problem is, when I turn off 'light visible in reflections', the model gets all dark and most of or all of the lighting coming from the plane disappears.
I also keep getting some weird behavior when changing the material brightness where the value doesn't change the light being cast on the geometry. Then followed by freezing/crashing... messy stuff.
Here's the .KSP. I'd like to see if anyone has a solution for retaining the light on the plane while turning off the obnoxious reflections https://www.dropbox.com/s/o7wi9lcyrdbughl/WineGlass.ksp?dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/o7wi9lcyrdbughl/WineGlass.ksp?dl=0)
Thanks for any feedback
This may be too easy, but don't you just turn off 'visible in reflections'..?
Quote from: jhiker on January 19, 2015, 10:52:40 PM
This may be too easy, but don't you just turn off 'visible in reflections'..?
I may have described it in a confusing way. When I turn off 'visible in reflections', along with the reflections, the light on the geometry is turning off as well. I'm trying to determine if I'm doing something wrong to cause it to behave this way, or if there's a bug of sorts... not sure.
ok after playing with your ksp I found some of the issues.
1. your material is set to black you have to have at least 1 in the value. Once you do that you will see the light kick in from the plane.
2. I would set the scale units to inches. This will give you some flexibility in changing the power of the light.
3. Use glass and turn double sided on for the glass and for the wine. I know they have a liquid material but I find the glass material works better.
Try those things and see what happens.
Personally I would stay away from pure black background but that's me.
Good luck I hope this helps.
Tim
Quote from: feher on January 20, 2015, 02:12:58 PM
ok after playing with your ksp I found some of the issues.
1. your material is set to black you have to have at least 1 in the value. Once you do that you will see the light kick in from the plane
Personally I would stay away from pure black background but that's me
Tim, could you elaborate a bit.. 'set to black' - you mean the ground material? And what's the 'at least 1' bit about.
Many thanks,
Jeff
Quote from: feher on January 20, 2015, 02:12:58 PM
Try those things and see what happens.
Personally I would stay away from pure black background but that's me.
Good luck I hope this helps.
Tim
You're the man Tim!
It helped for sure. I didn't realize the dangers of using 100% black. I'll try to avoid pure blacks from now on as it doesn't seem to reflect light.
The other palm-face-inducing factor was your suggestion about the scale. That explains a lot. :-[
I added some color grading and one reflection on the stem of the wine glass in PS.
Thanks for your helpful feedback. I learn something here every day.
@jhiker
I had both the ground and the background set to 100% black. Tim's suggestion was to make sure my r, g, b values are >1. Or whatever color 'mode' you're using, avoid pure black.
Quote from: willgibbonsdesign on January 21, 2015, 07:54:03 AM
I had both the ground and the background set to 100% black. Tim's suggestion was to make sure my r, g, b values are >1. Or whatever color 'mode' you're using, avoid pure black.
Useful tip! I wasn't aware of that.
Nice progress Will! Ground is a bit distracting, but glass and vino are looking great!
Thanks Josh. Yeah. Looks kindof like leopard print out of the corner of my eye, hah. Ah well. It was a good exercise. I learned much. Time to play with some new geometry.