Scaling driving me nuts

[mattjgerard]

Ok, I'm really struggling tyring to understand the scaling in KS. It just does'nt make sense to the user why the number behave like they do in the interface. I remember a while back Dries explained that scaling is all a function of ratios and relating one dimension to another, and how they are connected mathematically. Now, while that may make sense to a software engineer or in KS6 where units were of less concern, its quite growing into a usability toe-stubber these days. Example-

Using all primitives inside KS-

1) Create cube, dimensions show
x=1
y=1
z=1
Master Scale =1

2) Want to make it shorter? Enter 0.5 in the Y Scale box and what should now look like
x=1
y=0.5
z=1
Master Scale =1

Looks like this-

x=2
y=1
z=2
Master Scale =0.5

So, I can see what it is doing, its normalizing the individual scaling to 1, it won't ever let any of the individual scaling dimensions go below 1

But in the process of doing this, its losing the relationship of other objects in the scene. Now, I do understand that this is "Scaling", and not adjusting the actual dimensions, so the scaling works more like a percentage of relationships between the dimensions, but in practical usage its very awkward, and takes a lot of the intuitiveness  away.  In all the other apps I've used not only can you scale a single dimension below 1 and have it stick (and have the option for absolute or relative numbers) , you can also enter in actual dimensions in units.

The other problem is that with the Dimensions now reading

x=2
y=1
z=2
Master Scale =0.5

If I add another cube from the Edit->Add Geometry menu, the new cube comes in at a master scale of 0.1 for some reason. The new cube should be the exact same along the x and z as the 2,1,2,0.5 cube but its not brought in that way.

So, not sure of this is a rant or a plea for help in understanding or a bug, or a request. Its just that working with the scaling numbers that won't stay what you type them makes it really hard to work with.

Thanks-

Matt

[LayC42]

I do really understand this. But can't explain why KeyShot is working this way.

In my opinion add a new geometry should start with a default of 1.

And if I need another cube with the same modifications in scale, I would use duplicate.

It could be interesting following this thread.


(Sorry for the short form. Written on  a mobile)

[Alicia_Keys_Hot]

This is also driving me nuts, in my opinion this is purely a bug or a prank by Keyshot team. There's no way I can follow the scaling of some parts because of this "feature", big please fix it.

Other bug related to scaling is that if you accidentally put number 0 on any of the scale boxes the part is gone for ever. No undo will rescue it nor re-typing scale factors. This is super super annoying.

[Will Gibbons]

As Matt pointed out, it is indeed a function of ratios. Whether dims read as:

X=1
Y=.5
Z=1

or

X=2
Y=1
Z=2

The ratio of the other values to Y is 2:1

This is how KeyShot has and does deal with 'object size in scene' since it's never supported dimensions.

As for adding a 2nd cube... well, anytime you add a primitive, it'll come in at 10% (or 1/10th) of the largest item in your scene. If you start with a 1x1x1 cube, the next cube comes in at .1x.1x.1 and then the 3rd cube will come in at .1x.1x.1 as well since the largest item is still 1x1x1. This is why when you have a large ground plane, your cube will come in much larger.

The other thing that I think that maybe adding to the confusion is that it seems like Scale doesn't stay absolute, again, as Matt pointed out, it's normalizing the scale... so once it's done that, if you keep inputting the same value, the ratio (and other values will continue to change).

I'm just trying to offer some confirmation for current behavior. Your concerns are noted and will be passed on.

[ieatfish]

Thanks Will.

I made this post a while back: https://www.keyshot.com/forum/index.php?topic=19633 And there was a post about having a way to specify an exact value into the properties (dimensions) rather than have to play with scaling to make it an exact size. Last, once you've set scene units, keyshot should be smart enough to have an input of different units and have it convert (i.e. scene is in inches, input 5mm, and it should convert to the correct inch value.)

All in all, I think they are all user friendly changes that would remove a lot of headache and head scratching.