Espresso Machine

stefan marji · August 01, 2018, 03:46:07 PM

Trying to create more "real" product , so any comments about textures and light are welcome.
As it should be new product , dust and scratches are off topic...

mattjgerard · August 02, 2018, 06:17:00 AM

From my very beginnings in keyshot, the one comment I always get is that my HDRI's are too low contrast. That appears to be a little bit in play here as well. Also, unless that black plastic is very smooth, I would add an imperceptibly small noise to the bump channel, even if the results are barely noticible. The roughness slider can do the same thing, but having something in the bump channel itself just adds another level of detail.

In the last image, it looks like the model isn't quite on the surface, and the shadows could benefit from being a tad darker. If that can be done in KS with occlusion shadows, lighting or something else, great, but that might be a photoshop thing as well. Otherwise its looking pretty good!

stefan marji · August 02, 2018, 06:53:11 AM

Yes ! that is definitely my issue , all renders seem sharp and crisp yet my own always turn out somehow blurry and dirty ( probably work style ).
So will try your suggestions with hdri and grain coatings. But also I have issue making that coffee beans more visible and brownish ( created invisible area light but effects get poorly done ) ... Maybe I want to create everything in one rendering shot , should try to layer more renders in photoshop or similar ? ... as for last image it is cropped from bigger image and down scaling from 32 bit psd Keyshot render to 16 bit realy destroys appearence and collors , ( should avoid 32 bit psd from now? ... dont know )
Anyways thank you for comment and explanation ! you nailed my issues here .

Speedster · August 02, 2018, 09:08:02 AM

Nice design! Well done!

Black (and white) are dogs to capture. I suggest kicking the black up just a very tiny bit towards grey in the color palette. Trust me, not very much!

I agree that a tiny bit of noise would help also.

I was a molder for over 30 years, and we always tried to talk our clients into a subtle texture, as a high polish always showed slight flaws such as flow lines, warpage and especially very minor sinks at ribs and such. Also, consumers are not big fans of high maintenance high polished plastic.

Also, try adding one or two pins in the HDR Editor to kick edges and fill shadows.

Make sure there is a tiny "gap" between the coffee liquid and the glass cup. You can scale the liquid to say 0.999 to achieve this gap. Otherwise it will be mostly black where it is in intimate contact with the glass.

And finally, try this... Add in a ground plane, preferably in you native CAD. If done in native, you can color map the underside in one (any) color, and the top in a different color. Then in KeyShot, apply "Chrome" to the underside, and "Frosted Glass" to the top. Then you can tweak the glass to suit, which creates a stunning and easily tweaked reflection on the ground plane. Note that you can play with materials as well, such as color and/or texture on the underside, etc., as well as various bumps on the glass.

Looking forward to seeing the end result!

Bill G

stefan marji · August 02, 2018, 10:39:25 AM

Hey Bill thank you so much for response. There is nothing to say ,just to try those edits and come back with new renderings. Thank you.

mattjgerard · August 03, 2018, 06:08:06 AM

and yes, I use invisible planes, spheres and such to cast light into nooks and crannies all the time. HDRI's won't always reach into those areas.

stefan marji · August 03, 2018, 06:34:44 AM

Quote from: mattjgerard on August 03, 2018, 06:08:06 AM
and yes, I use invisible planes, spheres and such to cast light into nooks and crannies all the time. HDRI's won't always reach into those areas.

Yes I have 4 or 5 light planes , one is strictly above coffee beans inside the grinder , but I have issue with material , couldnt achieve coffee beans color , intead it get redish on white light ... dunooo ... tnx

designgestalt · August 05, 2018, 02:26:55 AM

hello,
I did not read through all the comments so maybe my comment was already covered, mea culpa!
but I would definitely run a reflection along the front surface, not only to let it pop out more, but also to underline the surface quality. I assume this is a shiny surface, maybe a glass like appearance or a thick layer of clear lacquer on some sort of surface. you need to show this with a reflection. this will also help with pumping up the contrasts. get rid of the fuzz in that surface in the last image, it looks like some dirt, grease, fingerprints or whatsoever. some people here in the forum do that sort of imperfection to add realism to their images, but it is out of place in a product render. you would never see something like this in a product photo. maybe a reflection in the shape of a window would be cool, as you try to show the product in its real environment.
in case a white reflection is "too much" for you, you could try a black reflection to indicate the glossiness of the front surface.
Glossiness in this product range is perceived as high value and your customer sure would like to point that out!

also the first assembly image needs more light ! not only does it need to be brighter, but the lights should not come from the back of the product.
it casts some awkward shadows in front of the machine, especially , where you open the door to show the inside. that area is totally dark and very hard to read.
I would also get rid of that slight yellow tint in the clear materials. this is a color that usually only comes in clear plastics, when the UV resistance is worn out and makes the product look old. yet, totally colorless is too cold. I would go for a slightly blueish tint, which already refers to the water, that will once be in there...
my two cents ...
regards
designgestalt

stefan marji · August 05, 2018, 07:40:49 AM

designgestalt.
Yes you hit the point by reminding me how new product should be presented. nut just the tehnical part of work in KSh ( obviously got stuck in trying to make it " dirt" to look more detailed. Will definitely try to implement this approach and come back. Tnx!

mattjgerard · August 06, 2018, 05:55:52 AM

Good points, product photography (Which is essentially what we are doing here) needs to be front lit with a big bright keylight, and only backlit when a rim highlight is needed to separate the edge from the background. The reflections can be tough to place, I usually play around in photoshop just trying to make rudemntary glares glints and sheens on surfaces with transparent white shapes just to see what I want, then its easier to be focused in KS on getting the pins or planes where they need to go.

designgestalt · August 06, 2018, 06:07:16 AM

yo Mattjgerad,
you might remember, that I put "light painting" on my wish list for exactly that reason !
I would wish for a function, where I could lituratelly paint the light onto the product and the software reverses engineers the desired light !
cheers
designgestalt

mattjgerard · August 06, 2018, 09:24:24 AM

I do recall that! Its a great idea, and its kind of almost there with being able to click in the live view to place pins and drag them around. How they get placed and such is still a mystery to me but a full on 3d paint interface would be pretty handy to have. Some sort of overlay so you can see the HDRI unwrapped over the image as you paint.

Speedster · August 06, 2018, 04:50:16 PM

Quoteyou might remember, that I put "light painting" on my wish list for exactly that reason !
I would wish for a function, where I could literately paint the light onto the product and the software reverses engineers the desired light !

Plus One on that!!!

"Back in the Day" I did a lot of large format film photography, mostly 4x5 and 8x10 transparency. The great Santa Fe, New Mexico, based product photographer (world's top three) Aaron Jones invented and used the "Hosemaster" light painting system, many of which are still in use today. I know Aaron well, and designed and prototyped the system for him.

I wanted to attempt "Light Painting" in KeyShot, and spent a lot of time playing with the concept, using physically accurate lights (actually called lamps) to emulate the old style photo studio rig.

Visit my ancient post at https://www.keyshot.com/forum/index.php?topic=13834.msg69542#msg69542, as well as the follow-up posts.

So my wish now is simple- that we be able to "drag" any light (not necessarily like my physically correct lights) with the cursor, rather than going through the "Move Gizmo"!

Bill G

Will Gibbons · August 08, 2018, 08:05:16 AM

Quote from: Speedster on August 06, 2018, 04:50:16 PM
Quoteyou might remember, that I put "light painting" on my wish list for exactly that reason !
I would wish for a function, where I could literately paint the light onto the product and the software reverses engineers the desired light !

Plus One on that!!!

"Back in the Day" I did a lot of large format film photography, mostly 4x5 and 8x10 transparency. The great Santa Fe, New Mexico, based product photographer (world's top three) Aaron Jones invented and used the "Hosemaster" light painting system, many of which are still in use today. I know Aaron well, and designed and prototyped the system for him.

I wanted to attempt "Light Painting" in KeyShot, and spent a lot of time playing with the concept, using physically accurate lights (actually called lamps) to emulate the old style photo studio rig.

Visit my ancient post at https://www.keyshot.com/forum/index.php?topic=13834.msg69542#msg69542, as well as the follow-up posts.

So my wish now is simple- that we be able to "drag" any light (not necessarily like my physically correct lights) with the cursor, rather than going through the "Move Gizmo"!

Bill G

This got me thinking... I suppose this might be possible if you applied a light material to a piece of geometry, then animated the piece of geometry to move across your scene. Then set the frame rate super-low (like 1fps) and then enable motion blur... you think it could work? I might just have to test the concept.