Technique Check: More Realistic Sunlight with Outdoor Image Label in Window

imauserwiththisname · April 13, 2020, 09:43:27 AM

Greetings Fellow KeyShot Users,

I am looking to get a better result while seeing "outside" of the windows in my interior kitchen scene that is still a WIP.

My client is looking at adding windows in the back non-shear wall of this scene in order to bring more light into their home. The client provided images of what is directly outside of the desired location for adding the windows, and has requested that it be shown in the final output.

My approach was to add a curved plane "outside" of the windows and set it to be a clear glass material with the images applied as labels.

I then duplicated the curved planes and moved them forward 1/2" and set the material for the duplicates to be area lights that are non-visible to the camera.

This is giving a decent result, but I feel there is definitely a better way and am looking to see how other folks approach this.

Keyshot 9.2 Pro - Max Samples (80 - Will go higher on final output) Interior Mode Lighting - Ray Bounces (64) - Global Illumination Bounces (64) - Shadow Quality (5) - Environment (HDRI using local Sun & Sky image) - Interior Lighting (Variety of Point Lights & IES Profiles)

If there are any other details that would help talk through this, please advise.

Thanks all!
-Lookwright

imauserwiththisname · April 16, 2020, 09:09:20 AM

Greetings All,

Hope everyone is staying as safe and inspired as possible during these chaotic times!

I'd like to rephrase my question in hopes of peaking one of you experts' interest.

If I change to use the main outdoor image as a back plate, it seems to be very washed out when viewed "through" the windows from the inside of the scene and I'm finding it very difficult to get the perspectives to match since there is lots going on in the image (attached for reference.)

Does anyone have advice on successfully using an outdoor image like this as a back plate in an interior and matching the perspective correctly and getting the brightness levels to match?
Would this be a task better suited to execute in Photoshop?

Thank you for your consideration!

Don Cheke · April 16, 2020, 11:37:14 AM

Quote from: Lookwright on April 16, 2020, 09:09:20 AM
Greetings All,

Hope everyone is staying as safe and inspired as possible during these chaotic times!

I'd like to rephrase my question in hopes of peaking one of you experts' interest.

If I change to use the main outdoor image as a back plate, it seems to be very washed out when viewed "through" the windows from the inside of the scene and I'm finding it very difficult to get the perspectives to match since there is lots going on in the image (attached for reference.)

Does anyone have advice on successfully using an outdoor image like this as a back plate in an interior and matching the perspective correctly and getting the brightness levels to match?
Would this be a task better suited to execute in Photoshop?

Thank you for your consideration!

I would suggest that you use the image you want as the background and apply it to a large (to scale) plane and just place it around your model as needed. Be careful about light placement and you should be fine. The attached is an work in early stages, with much to do (so don't judge it for quality), but it is what I am doing...

imauserwiththisname · April 19, 2020, 04:52:23 PM

Greetings Don,

Thank you for the advice!

I'm still working through some changes on this project, and will give your method a shot.

I appreciate you taking the time to make suggestions and I'll share some images of the final result once ready.

designgestalt · April 20, 2020, 04:18:12 AM

hello Lookwright,
not sure how much of a help that is here, but there is a small program I use to find out the camera setting for an image:
fspy

https://fspy.io/

and just a suggestion from my side to your backplate image:
I would use a different one with much brighter colors (i.e. the sky is really washed out) and also a nicer environment.
Although this might be a scenario in real life, but in an advertise I would use an "open range" scenario, which will make the image look much fresher.
this way you also do not have to worry so much about the perspective. I think it is going to be pretty tough to get this to line up in your case...

cheers
designgestalt

TGS808 · April 20, 2020, 11:18:01 AM

Quote from: designgestalt on April 20, 2020, 04:18:12 AM
and just a suggestion from my side to your backplate image:
I would use a different one with much brighter colors (i.e. the sky is really washed out) and also a nicer environment.
Although this might be a scenario in real life, but in an advertise I would use an "open range" scenario, which will make the image look much fresher.
this way you also do not have to worry so much about the perspective. I think it is going to be pretty tough to get this to line up in your case...

I don't think he has that option as in his post he said:

Quote
My client is looking at adding windows in the back non-shear wall of this scene in order to bring more light into their home. The client provided images of what is directly outside of the desired location for adding the windows, and has requested that it be shown in the final output.

imauserwiththisname · April 21, 2020, 12:06:09 AM

Greetings designgestalt,

Thank you for sharing the link for fspy—that's an extremely useful utility that I hadn't heard of!

I don't have the option to use an alternative image at this point, but I am going to try to get a better version of the same outdoor scene to work with.

I will post results after making use of fspy with a higher quality shot.

Thanks again,
Lookwright

designgestalt · April 21, 2020, 05:40:36 AM

sorry, I was sloppy and did not read all the way through the thread

so if you do not have the possibiltiy to change the background or take another picture (with a better perspective!!) than at least get it corrected in Photoshop first.
try to straighten the pipes on the left side of the image (if needed look for "Correcting Converging Verticals in Photoshop"), you will never get that to look right in your final image otherwise.
also crank up the colors and dynamics in PS, so that the picture looks "friendly" in the overall color range!

may I ask where that picture is taken?

cheers
designgestalt

imauserwiththisname · June 30, 2020, 07:12:19 PM

Greetings @designgestalt,

The project was put on hold for a few months while we started to shelter in place for COVID-19, but resuming work on the project later this week.

This image was taken from the client's backyard deck in the Castro District of San Francisco, California.

I'm going to take a shot at your mentioned approach and will share results.

Thanks again!
Lookwright

jet1990 · July 07, 2020, 03:29:27 AM

I'm not sure if you're still wanting an answer on this but im interpreting your question as asking for advice on making the background image more believable.

Another way to do it is set up the external lighting as you would and get it to a point where you are happy with how the interior is lit. Add your curved plane outside with the image as texture and set the material to emmisive and tweak the intensity until it looks believable. By setting the light to emmisive, you allow the HDRI lighting (or any other light sources) placed behind the curved plane to project through and into the scene.

Similarly, you could render without the curved screen and a plain white background and render is as a PNG with transparency. Taking it into photoshop would allow you to place an image behind the windows which should appear transparent.