Keyshot->Cinema4D->After Effects/Element 3D

[mattjgerard]

As i'm sure the subject has caused you to cringe a little already, yes, that is the workflow I've been tasked to figure out in the most painless way possible. If I was freelance, I would have a totally different answer

Anyway, to make a long story short ("Too Late!" and if you can name the movie reference, bonus points for you ) we have the vast majority of our products in keyshot sourced from STP engineering files. These are textured, lables applied and rendered out for the web and print. Now they are starting to do product videos, and the video guy wants to do his own thing in AfterEffects. I have used Cinema 4D and Element 3D extensivly in the past, and it seems that if I can figure out the most painless way to get him models either in Cinema 4D and use the Cineware plugin, or even better would be to then get them into Element 3D (by videocopilot) so the editor can animate totally in AE. With cineware, the animation still has to happen in C4D, which is less ideal.

So, there is my conundrum. So far my limited testing has fallen flat about getting materials, labels etc out of keyshot into pretty much anything else. I know there is an OBJ export with an MTL file, but that doesn't seem to bring in anything other than colors.

So, here are my solutions-

1) Figure out a rudimentary way to get UVW mapping and textures out of Keyshot

2) Totally rebuild and re-texture the models in Cinema 4D

Obviously #1 is better, but #2 as a backup will be ok if it really has to happen that way.

Thanks all! I've been blowing up this forum with questions and looking for tips, this is a fantastic resource and I really appreciate all the knowledge and the Luxion folks who frequent the forums to help all us poor saps just trying to grind through our days!

Mattchew

[DMerz III]

Trying to figure out a similar scenario myself.

Good luck on #1. As far as I know, impossible. Materials will never be exportable from one rendering engine to the next, it's basically what keeps them competitive with each other. They all operate differently when assigning shaders, but the math behind the 'rendering' isn't ALL that different in theory.

Our client is asking if we can deliver our Keyshot models but in C4D (so someone else down the pipeline can animate but use our superior materials and lighting)... so we're educating them on that. We're trying to convince them that we can deliver C4D files that mimic the materials we created in Keyshot, but it means duplicating efforts and also means they need to pay us more to do so.

Keyshot animation does pretty well for simple product shots, but it just doesn't have all of the robust features a full-3D suite/animation package is going to have, so I understand the need.

But the bottom line is, duplication of effort. What I'm trying to work out is the reverse workflow. Create all of the animation elements/movements/geometry in whatever suite (Blender/C4D/Max/Maya etc.) export to alembic or even obj sequence. Import that into Keyshot, apply materials, lighting, camera, and render through Keyshot. This to me is the MOST efficient, however, it is taking some convincing for the client to see it that way.

[guest84672]

In KeyShot 7 we will have the ability to export FBX which can be taken into 3rd party applications for modeling and animation work, and then be re-imported into KeyShot.

[MisterNeil]

Thank you Mattjgerard and DMerzLLL for this post.

I too have a need to export 3D models from KeyShot. In my situation I need to import the models into a presentation app called BoxShot. I contacted Luxion tech support recently and was told, "If you are looking to create interactive presentations using your KeyShot models, you will want to look into getting the KeyShot VR add-on." I am afraid this suggestion does not address my needs of importing a 3D model to BoxShot from KeyShot.

Does anyone know why KeyShot 6 does not export a file format (includes the materials, colors, etc.) that can be later imported into another app like C4D or other? Is there a technical reason which prevents exporting from KeyShot or is it because there is no request for this feature from KeyShot customers???

Any suggestion on this matter would be appreciated. Thank you!

Neil

[guest84672]

KeyShot materials are proprietary to the KeyShot render engine. These can't be read by any other rendering application.

[MisterNeil]

Hi Thomas,

I am thrilled to hear KeyShot 7 will allow us to export .FBX files which can later be imported into 3rd party applications.

Does this mean any color, lighting, textures, etc. applied to the 3D model in KeyShot 7 will be included/transferred when this 3D model is exported as a .FBX file?

Neil

[mattjgerard]

Thanks everyone for the replys. First off, let me say that the fact that keyshot is very internal with its materials and the way it generates its textures and stuff is not suprising nor unexpected. The fact that there are ANY export features at all is appreciated. I am not nearly smart enough to understand all the limitations and magic that happens behind the scenes to get the software to work in the first place, so being told "Yeah, that ain't gonna happen" doesn't irritate me as much anymore.

That being said, I'm not one to sit there an be told it can't happen. Through some obscured 17 step conversion process that has to be done at the full moon with incense burning and candles lit and Tibetan monks chorusing in the background has pulled off some amazing workflows in my career.

So, its good to hear that others are looking for the same functionality, and even BETTER that there will be some sort of solution coming! FBX!!!! Awesome!!!! At least then there is a hope that the layers and groups will stick.

Now, on to the matter of the textures. Lighting I'm not worried about, that can be dealt with quite easily in fact.

I was expieriementing with export options, and I saw that there was a zbrush export option that would flatten the textures. Which is exactly what I'm looking for, to flatten all the channels including the labels onto a single flattened image that is then UVW wrapped on the object. I did export one of these, but can't get the zBrush trial to open it. Says there is an error and shuts down. So, today will be troubleshooting that.

I love KS for what it is, its fantastic. Would be nice if it played well with others a bit more, but from a developers standpoint I can see why that is   a low priority. If there was one request, it would be to have a "Bake+Export"option for the textures.

Still on the hunt, I'll keep posted if I find anything out. I wish I could do the animations in KS, but its too complex and interactive with other assets, so I need more of a compositing solution.

Cheers!

Matt

[guest84672]

@MisterNeil: Color yes, but not texture. No lighting. The idea here is to bring it into another application for modeling or animation we don't do inside KeyShot, and then re-import it into KeyShot.

@mattjgerard: ZPR export is NOT ZBrush, but the 3D print format for Z-Corp printers.

If you want to render with C4D, I'm not sure I understand why you would want to go into KeyShot to begin with.

Animations are "too complex and interactive with other assets" - I don't quite understand what you mean.
Our animation capabilities are not as extensive as C4D. But you can import C4D animations into KeyShot.

[mattjgerard]

@mattjgerard: ZPR export is NOT ZBrush, but the 3D print format for Z-Corp printers.

If you want to render with C4D, I'm not sure I understand why you would want to go into KeyShot to begin with.

Animations are "too complex and interactive with other assets" - I don't quite understand what you mean.
Our animation capabilities are not as extensive as C4D. But you can import C4D animations into KeyShot.

Figured out he ZPR export late last night, thank you for confirming that. Makes sense why Zbrush wasn't too happy with the file

All of our products go through keyshot first to get web and brochure images. That's my primary job, and that's where the process starts. I get the CAD's hot off the press and I get to work the magic in keyshot. After the fervor of a new product launch is over with, then we head back to the product and start making web videos of them, and more in depth explainer videos. So, I am tasking myself with trying to take the work that I have already  done in KS and make my life easier in the video world.

Now, I do know that KS does animations, and that may be one of the paths we go down. My background is in C4D and AE, so that's the way my skillset wants to go. I Will not be rendering out of C4D, they don't have Octane here, and the physical renderer is just way to slow.

I am not the "video guy" here in the office, so I am trying to figure out how to get that person assets that they can use in the videos. My old workflow was to get the ProE Neutral files, convert them to C4D files with Okino Nugraf (thats a whole different story), prep them in C4D and shoot them to Element 3D in After Effects.

I k now I should be able to animate my products in KS and just send over framestacks to the AE person, but being able to animate and control the product inside the AE comp is so much better for what we are trying to do. By complex animations I'm talking about motion tracking parts and attaching text and images to them, doing live cutaways and animated transparencies, controlling groups of parts of assemblies and being able to plan out interactions with other motion graphics elements within AE, its just so much more flexible to do that live in the comp in AE with something like Element 3D. IF there was a way to export the camera settings and moves from an animation done in KS to AE, that would be workable too. Otherwise none of the motion of the KS animation would match in AE and I'd have to do another layer of camera tracking to try to match it.

Now, if this is all a pipe dream, and in the end I have to start from scratch with the CAD files and retexture and add lables and such, then so be it I'll do that. I'm just trying to squeeze every last bit of useability from KS possible to make this workflow happen. I know what kesyhot does best, and I know what AE does best, so I'm trying to make best use of both systems.

Cheers!

Matt

[TpwUK]

You should be seeing better integration with KS7 and C4D via alembic cache so your workflow should be that little bit easier

Martin

[mattjgerard]

That sounds great!

My shortfall right now is finding a way to get the labels out of keyshot, which doesn't seem to be possible, even with FBX, depending on how its implemented. So, for now I fought me way through C4d and element and got something working. Not ideal, but its a first step. The stumbling block is certainly the way Element 3D handles its textures, so I have to learn to work within that sandbox.

Thanks everyone!