What does everyone think about Keyshot 11?

RaycerX · February 19, 2022, 11:58:46 AM

Personally, I think it's pretty buggy compared to previous versions and most of the features they're touting (3D Paint, CMF) have limited use for me. I would've much preferred a revision of the whole user interface and a complete redo of the animation features. Also, a lot more stock 3D models, materials, lights, etc. would be great too. Adobe is just ramping up and optimizing (for M1 Macs) their Substance 3D programs and when they do it could really hurt Keyshot if they don't find ways to keep up. Just my two cents. What do you guys think?

TGS808 · February 19, 2022, 01:26:09 PM

Substance is no substitute for KeyShot and Adobe Dimension can't import any standard CAD formats. No STP, no IGES. KeyShot isn't in any danger from what Adobe is doing.

Zeltronic · February 20, 2022, 09:45:22 AM

ks 11 is pretty good, some improvements are noticeable especially on the rendering and the management of fire flies, paint option is a gadget & honestly for in-depth work on texturing substance is by far the most complete tool, we will just regret to have waited so long for an update that only brings some not really revolutionary improvements ...

RaycerX · February 21, 2022, 01:47:26 PM

My comment about Adobe was talking about their acquisition of the Substance 3D Suite, which does, indeed import CAD files, but it has to be an enterprise subscription, which I find ridiculous. Maybe they'll change that. In any case, Keyshot is safe for now, but in a year or so they might start to take market share if they don't keep doing something to improve the user interface and add more value for the price.

TGS808 · February 21, 2022, 02:30:50 PM

I can't see a time when people give up using KS and replace it with Substance Painter. Not a year from now, or ever.

mattjgerard · February 22, 2022, 07:14:25 AM

Quote from: TGS808 on February 21, 2022, 02:30:50 PM
I can't see a time when people give up using KS and replace it with Substance Painter. Not a year from now, or ever.

Also I don't think Substance is trying to become a top tier rendering solution, and Adobe would be foolish to try to make it that. Its good at 3d painting and textureing, and that's all it should try to do. Its when companies try to widen the scope of their apps to encompass everything is when overall the app suffers (I'm looking at you Key VR, Mr Niche feature:)

Morgan · February 22, 2022, 08:57:44 AM

Quote from: TGS808 on February 21, 2022, 02:30:50 PM
I can't see a time when people give up using KS and replace it with Substance Painter. Not a year from now, or ever.

entirely your opinion

Substance 3D is in my opinion too expensive, the mats also cost extra and the menu navigation is a disaster, I "only" use Zbrush, KeyShot and Photoshop and I don't miss Substance at all, I can now paint materials in KeyShot 11 too, and get along well with it, one less reason that could speak for Substance.
I am sure that Luxion will continue and expand the possibilities for painting in KeyShot.

TGS808 · February 22, 2022, 09:57:52 AM

Quote from: mattjgerard on February 22, 2022, 07:14:25 AM
Also I don't think Substance is trying to become a top tier rendering solution, and Adobe would be foolish to try to make it that.

I don't think so either. Substance is something that is used along with or in addition to KeyShot, not instead of it. That's why I thought it was weird that the OP was of the opinion that KS may be "in danger" of Substance under Adobe. They aren't even competing products.

TGS808 · February 22, 2022, 09:59:19 AM

Quote from: Morgan on February 22, 2022, 08:57:44 AM
Quote from: TGS808 on February 21, 2022, 02:30:50 PM
I can't see a time when people give up using KS and replace it with Substance Painter. Not a year from now, or ever.
entirely your opinion

Substance 3D is in my opinion too expensive, the mats also cost extra and the menu navigation is a disaster, I "only" use Zbrush, KeyShot and Photoshop and I don't miss Substance at all, I can now paint materials in KeyShot 11 too, and get along well with it, one less reason that could speak for Substance.
I am sure that Luxion will continue and expand the possibilities for painting in KeyShot.

Sounds like, for the most part, it's your opinion as well.

Morgan · February 23, 2022, 01:42:37 AM

I tried it several times as a trial version when it was still Substance 3D and when it was acquired by Adobe, everything stayed the same the menus are still a disaster and nothing got better, Blender is even worse but it's just a free software.
I can create all the maps without Substance and with no additional cost.

TGS808 · February 23, 2022, 05:31:30 AM

Quote from: Morgan on February 23, 2022, 01:42:37 AM
I tried it several times as a trial version when it was still Substance 3D and when it was acquired by Adobe, everything stayed the same the menus are still a disaster and nothing got better, Blender is even worse but it's just a free software.
I can create all the maps without Substance and with no additional cost.

Blender is definitely the worst. It's interface is a nightmare. And it used to be even worse than it is now.

hve · February 23, 2022, 12:51:04 PM

I tried a lot of new tools lately, Substance looked good on paper but is way too complex using different apps is a real mess and no animation yet. Even if I think Keyshot is too expensive I must admit it works very well Paint tool is very handy. I also like Maverick Studio a lot the results of their renders are absolutely awesome but again no real animation yet. I also tested Redshift with Cinema 4D which is a program I like a lot but hence Redshift freezes and crashes too much and you don't get fast results as you do with Keyshot. So for now I didn't really find a substitute even if I think that in the next year this might change.

Zeltronic · February 23, 2022, 02:51:49 PM

I just wanted to add that the little disappointments caused to me by the latest version of keyshot are mainly linked to my attachment to this software from which I expect a lot, perhaps too much. I don't either expect him to do a job we can perfectly execute and exploit in keyshot through additional tool like substance painter which is specialized and sharp in is field. It is up to everyone to find the subtle balance in their workflow and the different tools and techniques that will compose it.

RaycerX · February 24, 2022, 12:04:52 PM

Quote from: TGS808 on February 21, 2022, 02:30:50 PM
I can't see a time when people give up using KS and replace it with Substance Painter. Not a year from now, or ever.

There are four different apps that are part of Substance 3D. The one closest to Keyshot would be Adobe Substance Stager. That's the one I'm referring to mainly. It's very easy to use, has an enormous library of assets included free, and has a less convoluted interface. Keyshot should grab some of the best features and add them in. Stager has no animation yet, but I'm betting it will before too long and it won't be as clumsy as Keyshot's is. Adobe may not steal many longtime Keyshot users, but it might take away future ones if given the chance. Just my two cents.

TGS808 · February 24, 2022, 12:53:34 PM

Quote from: RaycerX on February 24, 2022, 12:04:52 PM
There are four different apps that are part of Substance 3D. The one closest to Keyshot would be Adobe Substance Stager. That's the one I'm referring to mainly. It's very easy to use, has an enormous library of assets included free, and has a less convoluted interface.

People use Painter and Designer but does anyone actually use Stager? Professionally? KeyShot is also very easy to use and has a fairly vast, free asset library (KeyShot Cloud). Compared with many other software packages, the KeyShot interface is far from convoluted. How much easier do you need it to be?

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Stager has no animation yet, but I'm betting it will before too long and it won't be as clumsy as Keyshot's is.

This is just pure speculation on your part.

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Adobe may not steal many longtime Keyshot users, but it might take away future ones if given the chance.

I would agree that could possibly be the case if the Substance products were part of Adobe CC, making it easy for someone with a subscription to download them, try them and begin to use them. But they aren't. With a subscription to the the top tier Adobe CC plan (Creative Cloud All Apps), you don't get access to any of the Substance stuff. If you want those, you have to pay more for a second subscription. If you have to pay more, there would be no reason not to investigate other similar software that's not made by Adobe.