Keyshot to CS6 color management issues

[flappinfish]

Hi All,

I know that there are a few threads on this forum regarding color management in Keyshot, but i am at a loss as to how to work with it. I would like to be able to get WSIWYG compliance between Keyshot and CS6. Otherwise whats the point of tweaking things in Keyshot to get just what you want, and then not being able to re-create it in Photoshop !? I work as a Photoshop retoucher, you might be able to get close by monkeying around with adjustment layers but you will never be able to match it. And its the subtle details that add believability to renders, if I have to go in and try to move the color around to match what I had in keyshot I'm going to lose a lot of subtle and not so subtle lighting effects.

Here is what I know so far:
1) Administrator from Keyshot says that the current build version of Keyshot outputs files as sRGB.

2) Administrator also says that when importing profiles into Keyshot via Preferences, that it is only effecting the way in which color is displayed, not embedding a profile in to output

3) I have imported sRGB profile from CS6 into Keyshot --> Preferences --> color management. I have then set CS6 working space as the same sRGB profile. And we know from Administrator that Keyshot is supposedly outputting sRGB.

But none of this is making any difference in my goal to get WSIWYG compliance between the programs. When I open the Keyshot file in CS6 I get a "missing profile" warning. If I assign sRGB to the image I still get the same washed out problem image that needs to be drastically corrected to match original Keyshot view.

I don't know if this is a recent problem, because I am a new Keyshot user, or if this is a MAC problem?? But honestly for me at this point it feels like a Keyshot killer. I greatly enjoy this program, quirks and all, but this is unacceptable to me. I must be missing something here, because I see gorgeous renders in the gallery and I know many top professional 3D artists using Keyshot as the main renderer.

Please someone enlighten me on what I am doing wrong here.

My specs are: MAC 10.8.5 // Keyshot build 4.2.35 // CS6

Thank you,
Alexi

[flappinfish]

I would like to add that I am not having this problem when I'm working in Modo 601. So something funny is going on with Keyshot.

[Ruckus]

I am pretty sure that there is no profile embedded in the files output by KS.  (though one must have been effect at the time the RGB information was written out).

You probably do not want to "assign" a profile in CS6.  I think you will want to display the file with whatever profile looks best, then "convert" to the profile you want it to have downstream.

Color profiles in general, and specifically how they work in CS6, is one of the most difficult subjects to explain.  So rather than me getting it wrong, I'm going to refer to a very good tutorial.

http://www.gballard.net/psd/assignconvert.html

Just reading the information at this site will probably not be good enough for a full understanding - I strongly suggest downloading his files, and going through the full tutorial.

Hows that for a non-answer? 

[flappinfish]

Thanks Ruckus, I'll check it out.

BTW love your tag line!

[flappinfish]

Ok, maybe i've made this too complicated.

Forum members, do your onscreen images in Keyshot match the renders when you open them in Photoshop?

I have no problem with this when rendering in Modo, there is nothing that needs to be even set up.

So I am at a loss why this is difficult in Keyshot ??

[Bondra]

I'm having this problem too

[TpwUK]

I am somewhat confused with all this. If you are using OSx, goto settings and then displays, then select color, then you can see colour profiles. Here you can create your own profile to be used by calibrating your monitor. If you're lucky, there might already be one there for your monitor. But create or select that profile and use it across both apps. Does this not work for you guys ?

Martin

[MisterNeil]

Hello Flappinfish,

I want to share my information and experiences with color management between KeyShot and Photoshop CS6. You are correct to be concerned on how to properly achieve color between both applications. KeyShot's PDF documentation and website does not address this topic. Instead, as per KeyShot's own "What's New"section of their website, their Color Management setting serves only one purpose: "Color Management allows the matching and control of color representations across various devices."

Please note the following: KeyShot images use the limited sRGB Color Space and not the larger color gamut Adobe RGB (1998) Color Space. And, KeyShot does not embed a color space in their images when they are rendered. You need to assign a color space when opening the image in an application like Photoshop CS6.

Here are my steps to match rendered images between KeyShot and Photoshop CS6:

1] Export a TIFF from KeyShot
2] Open TIFF in Photoshop CS6 and use the following settings:

When Missing Profile window appears choose: Assign Profile sRGB IEC61966-2.1 and check the box "and then convert document to working RGB"

3] You will notice that the image's shadows will benefit if it was a slightly darker. Create an "Exposure" Adjustment layer with Gamma Correction set at 0.90. Other settings in this adjustment layer will stay at zero.
4] Set blend mode for Exposure Adjustment layer to "Luminosity".

The TIFF image in Photoshop now matches the model in KeyShot. I have attached a screenshot of the "Missing Profile" window for reference. I hope this information helps you with matching images between KeyShot and Photoshop CS6.

Lastly, I also want to reiterate that I believe Luxion, the makers of KeyShot should update their KeyShot 4 PDF guides with these Color Management details as well. The Color Management setting is briefly discussed in page 8 of their "KeyShot_4.2_Whats_New.pdf" and on page 29 of their "KeyShot_4.2_manual_en.pdf". However, there is no mentioning that KeyShot's Color Management is not applicable when matching images between various applications and what steps a user needs to perform to have images match in both KeyShot and in applications like Photoshop.

Adding these details to the Color Management website page as well as in their PDF documents would inform their users how to properly use Color Management in KeyShot.

Neil

[flappinfish]

Hi Neil,

We met on the previous thread regarding this issue. Thank you for posting your findings again. Unfortunately I am still not able to reproduce your results. I am getting a hue change.

I have turned off color management in Keyshot and followed your instructions in CS6 but still getting a strong hue shift. Although the example is a bright red its not out of gamut, if i take a screen shot I can open it in CS6 and it matches just fine.

[flappinfish]

I am somewhat confused with all this. If you are using OSx, goto settings and then displays, then select color, then you can see colour profiles. Here you can create your own profile to be used by calibrating your monitor. If you're lucky, there might already be one there for your monitor. But create or select that profile and use it across both apps. Does this not work for you guys ?

Martin


Hi Martin,

I am working on a calibrated Eizo ColorEdge and not able to get the results I'm looking for. Just to clarify, I am trying to get the same color that I see in the render window in Keyshot  when I open the file in CS6. So far not been able to accomplish that.

[Ruckus]

I like Neils solution, but if it is not working for you, try this variation:

When you open your KS image in PhotoShop, choose:   Leave As Is (Don't color manage)

Then start assigning different profiles, until you get the closest match between PS & KS - it does not matter what the name of that profile is.

After you have the closest match, then convert to the profile of your choice - convert will not alter the colors of your image. (unless you happen to have some colors at the extreams of the assigned profile that are not contained in the converted to profile.  This is usually not a big problem)

After that you can use Niel's exposure trick, or other PS techniques as needed.

[flappinfish]

Thanks everyone for your help!!

I was not able to get to my desired goal of finding a match between keyshot and CS6 but I have gotten to a place of work-ability.

Turns out from my research, that most 3D apps are not color managed. So as Martin correctly pointed out you need Keyshot to behave like your monitor profile. Then you want CS6 to behave as it should....operating in a wide gamut color space, (adobe 1998) not your monitor color space.

The route I have found is the following:

1) In Keyshot ---> preferences ---> color management ---> enable color management---> use your color calibrated monitor profile (one can find in the color sync folder in OSX)

2) In CS6 leave working space as Adobe 1998 and use Neil's method of opening the image, converting and adding exposure layer.

This got me pretty close, still a bit yellow casted but a lot closer then where I was at.

Maybe some day we can close the gap.

Thanks All!!