I've searched for UV Mapping tutorials and texture info but most of them are simple noise textures or box maps.
I'm getting the feeling that Luxion haven't solved simple UV mapping problems, some of these questions go back as far as 2011 with little or no answers.
I have a cube with the vertical faces filleted, I want to float a label around both sides so I can read the text.
I've tried using standard fillets in Rhino
I've tried extruding a single surface but Keyshot still isn't playing ball.
I've tried floating a label over the form too and it doesn't flow around the edges of the box without distortion
Can this actually be done? >:(
Box: http://prntscr.com/7q8vrc
UV: http://prntscr.com/7q8w6d
Label:http://prntscr.com/7q8wnv
Any ideas... That aren't VRay
I see you mention Rhino as your modelling package. Rhino does not produce a UV map as such as it is a NURBS modelling app. NURBs surfaces are mathematical equations resulting in shapes, that are 'glued' together to produce solids. Using your shape apply the wireframe material from the miscellaneous materials and then zoom into any fillets or blended surfaces and you will see the underlying tessellated surfaces have different mesh densities, those kind of surfaces are fine for procedural shaders but are no good for bitmapped textures which is why you can't get good results with UV Mapping and a complex NURBs model/solid.
UV Mapping really needs to be applied to a polygon based mesh. Export your model from Rhino as an OBJ LWO FBX or whatever polygon format you prefer, you should get a dialogue box to adjust mesh density and quality and you should be able to see the mesh being generated. Once you are happy with the mesh, complete the export from Rhino, then use KeyShot to import and UV map the exported polygon model.
Martin
** Edit - I have just added two screenshots to help you understand a little better. Image 1 is from a polygon modelling app, image 2 is a NURBs cube with filleted edges being prepped for export as a polygon mesh (obj in this case). As you can see the NURBs surfaces are not of equal density and edge loops plus seams do not marry up nor do they stay consistent in direction etc. This is why NURBs do not UV Map very well and are best suited to Procedural Shaders **
Good visual explanation Martin! That looks like a lovely rhino obj youv got there? They are a mess! why does Rhino slice a perfectly good 4 sided poly into several triangles? Its a real weak point of rhino.
Thank you for the reply, It's just frustrating when you're not sure what the question you're asking should be! :)
http://tips.rhino3d.com/2013/01/uv-mapping-in-v5-rhino.html I was able to rectify the NURBS model using the tips in the link then importing it to Keyshot.
It's a case of assigning UV mapping and slicing the model at the right point, really helpful video by Brian at McNeel.
Thanks again.
Cheers
Andy
P.S. Is that a T-Splines model?
@ Edwardo
QuoteGood visual explanation Martin! That looks like a lovely rhino obj youv got there? They are a mess! why does Rhino slice a perfectly good 4 sided poly into several triangles? Its a real weak point of rhino.
In this case it's a MoI3D model - With MoI you get the option of N-Gons, Quads plus Tri's and Triangulated only. Rhino does triangulation export to mesh only as far as i know. That choice was made way back when as the majority of render engines could not handle ngons or quads very well and there were 0 render engines that handled NURBs render meshes unless they were 'plugged in' - such as Flamingo, BrazilRS, BMRT etc etc
@ Andy
QuoteThank you for the reply, It's just frustrating when you're not sure what the question you're asking should be! :)
http://tips.rhino3d.com/2013/01/uv-mapping-in-v5-rhino.html I was able to rectify the NURBS model using the tips in the link then importing it to Keyshot.
Hmmm not seen this one before, or at least don't remember it off hand, so thanks for the link, i am off to watch it :)
Martin
Quote from: 2DCube on July 08, 2015, 06:47:16 AM
Thank you for the reply, It's just frustrating when you're not sure what the question you're asking should be! :)
http://tips.rhino3d.com/2013/01/uv-mapping-in-v5-rhino.html I was able to rectify the NURBS model using the tips in the link then importing it to Keyshot.
It's a case of assigning UV mapping and slicing the model at the right point, really helpful video by Brian at McNeel.
Nice video! Thanks for posting this. As a Creo & SolidWorks modeler, I wish I had this same ability to create a custom UV map as in Rhino. Any chance KeyShot might incorporate this functionality?
Awesome video thanks.
Also as a solid works user I struggle with this constantly. I would very much welcome limited uv unwrapping within key shot as shown in the video. Maybe with the new mesh editing in v6 this is feasible?
Rich
Hello,
I'm new here I have a question. I have a 3D cylinder and wanna apply a brushed aluminium on a side and a polished aluminium on the other side. Can we do this in Keyshot?
Thanks a lot have a great day!
Quote from: afdesign on October 22, 2015, 06:18:29 AM
Hello,
I'm new here I have a question. I have a 3D cylinder and wanna apply a brushed aluminium on a side and a polished aluminium on the other side. Can we do this in Keyshot?
Thanks a lot have a great day!
If it's a Polygon mesh then you can UV map it and use the texture you created with KeyShot, otherwise you would need to trim/split the cylinder where you want the two materials to be and assign them to different layers or colours, then import into KS and apply materials to them there :)
Martin
I am having a similar problem with a SolidWorks model that I wish to UV map. What is the work around for this?
Depends on the complexity of the model. If you create layers based on material types that makes life a little easier but you will find that you need procedural materials/shaders to avoid seams, so things like glass, metals, plastics etc will be ok but if you need bitmapped materials such as a checkerboard pattern then you will need UV mapping. Again this depends on the quality of the exporter from the modelling app. Some exporters convert the model to OBJ and include the UV data, most do not! So if the texture/material does not look correct on the exported OBJ, then you will need another polygon modelling app such as Maya, Max, C4D etc or the cheaper option is to use something like UVLayout. UV mapping is a skill in itself and requires a reasonably good understanding of the underlying topology of the mesh.
I think i should maybe start a thread that will cover when to UV or not for NURBs modellers
Martin
Tpwuk,
Thanks for the info! A thread would be really handy!
Luke
QuoteA thread would be really handy!
+1...
As a note to SolidWorks UV mapping- If it's to be a custom surface, like an area that's intended for texturing, I always use the "Split Line" tool. You can define anything you want, then map the resulting interior surfaces to suit.
Bill G
Quote from: TpwUK on November 03, 2015, 03:48:44 AM
I think i should maybe start a thread that will cover when to UV or not for NURBs modellers
+1
When i need UV mapping, I export my MoI 3D model in Wavefront .OBJ
Open it in C4D, use BP UV Edit, save it in .c4d
Import it directly in KS5
why don`t we have a detailed tutorial regarding to creating a UV map for Keyshot? i can`t make it work
Quote from: mertmg on October 31, 2016, 05:41:54 AM
why don`t we have a detailed tutorial regarding to creating a UV map for Keyshot? i can`t make it work
What modeling software do you use? There is usually tutorials regarding UV mapping in more common 3D programs (if they support this type of mapping). Once the UV map is created and model is exported, you just choose this mapping type in KeyShot.
mertmg, I've been trying to figure out UV mapping for a LONG time now, haha, so I understand your pain. In the past few months, I have discovered why it is so hard to get a straight answer with Keyshot. Basically, it is highly dependent on your modeling/CAD software, and your process.
I'll do my best to explain as a "newbie" in this area. Here's what I've gathered, and if someone who is an expert can help clear up any misunderstandings I have, please feel free!
If your method to model something is polygonal modeling (like in 3DsMax or C4D, Maya, etc.) you'll have more success finding answers about UV Mapping, and the tools you'll need to "set the UVs". These programs have a built in UV editor, and there's an entire process for how to "unwrap" the UVs for proper texture mapping. Each one does it differently, and there are other programs out there that make the process more or less, "easier". Search for tools like Headus UV Layout, 3D Coat, 3D Unwrap.
If you're modeling using CAD/NURBs type software, Solidworks, Rhino, MoI3D (which is what I've been using), you're going to have some trouble when you get to unwrapping the UVs. UVs rely on a mesh to make sense of coordinates, and even though you can export from these NURBs programs into a polygonal mesh file (like an OBJ) when you look at the mesh, it's not optimal for unwrapping. There's something called "edge flow", which I am just starting to understand and modeling with proper "edge flow" in a polygonal modeler is something that must be thought of beforehand.
But what if you're designing something in NURBs? What's the solution? Well, I am still trying to figure that out, but I wanted to share my experiences in what I've learned in my search to figure this problem out myself as well.
From what I've gathered, there is a way to "retopo" a model, and perhaps have a better polygonal mesh more suited to UV Unwrapping, but I haven't made it far enough to understand what workflow/programs I need to achieve this. Really hoping someone else can lend some advice to us both!
HI dimerzii,
i use Creo/Solidworks so I`m on CAD/NURBS. i understand complexity of it but i`m really willing to have an answer to it like you. i`ve attempted in several difference ways to render related textures/labels onto my products it worked well but i struggle as my needs getting bigger and bigger. UV mapping is the simplest approach in an ideal world but having models from CAD and trying to align them with polymeshes creates the problem. i`ve tried to install Blender and give it a go but it didn`t end up with pleasure so i`m looking for more. i`ll have a look at your recommendations but i`m sure there is a way achieve this even though it is too complex :)
Quote from: dmerziii on October 31, 2016, 08:19:20 AM
mertmg, I've been trying to figure out UV mapping for a LONG time now, haha, so I understand your pain. In the past few months, I have discovered why it is so hard to get a straight answer with Keyshot. Basically, it is highly dependent on your modeling/CAD software, and your process.
I'll do my best to explain as a "newbie" in this area. Here's what I've gathered, and if someone who is an expert can help clear up any misunderstandings I have, please feel free!
If your method to model something is polygonal modeling (like in 3DsMax or C4D, Maya, etc.) you'll have more success finding answers about UV Mapping, and the tools you'll need to "set the UVs". These programs have a built in UV editor, and there's an entire process for how to "unwrap" the UVs for proper texture mapping. Each one does it differently, and there are other programs out there that make the process more or less, "easier". Search for tools like Headus UV Layout, 3D Coat, 3D Unwrap.
If you're modeling using CAD/NURBs type software, Solidworks, Rhino, MoI3D (which is what I've been using), you're going to have some trouble when you get to unwrapping the UVs. UVs rely on a mesh to make sense of coordinates, and even though you can export from these NURBs programs into a polygonal mesh file (like an OBJ) when you look at the mesh, it's not optimal for unwrapping. There's something called "edge flow", which I am just starting to understand and modeling with proper "edge flow" in a polygonal modeler is something that must be thought of beforehand.
But what if you're designing something in NURBs? What's the solution? Well, I am still trying to figure that out, but I wanted to share my experiences in what I've learned in my search to figure this problem out myself as well.
From what I've gathered, there is a way to "retopo" a model, and perhaps have a better polygonal mesh more suited to UV Unwrapping, but I haven't made it far enough to understand what workflow/programs I need to achieve this. Really hoping someone else can lend some advice to us both!
My apologies guys, I have had a lot of personal stuff going on in my life since this pledge was made, I will try and get round to this before the New Year, hopefully the issues I am facing will be resolved by then.
Martin
Martin, there's no need to apologize! However, when you do get a chance to make that thread, I AM VERY INTERESTED!
I've learned quite a bit about it just from trying to solve a simple problem of needing a bitmap to wrap around an organic "cord" that I modeled in MoI3D. I'm new to modeling, and MoI was the easiest program for me to learn, however, not the best choice when you need to texture something with UVs. I've been playing with Headus UV Layout (haven't made the purchase until I know for sure it can solve my problem). I suddenly had a breakthrough when I modeled the cord in c4d instead, and unwrapped it in 2 seconds using UVLayout. It's all about those quads! Now...if you've got a workflow from MoI to UVLayout, I'm super super excited to see what you've got.
PS. The image you posted at the beginning of this thread explains the problem precisely.
Martin, I'm curious, have you ever used 3DCoat?
I've seen some tutorials by Chipp W, in which he takes a MoI3d hard surface model, does some "3d-painting" with 3DCoat, then exports those maps into Keyshot, and everything seemingly lines up.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lk_6SsRfmAg
What I haven't seen is someone take a Moi OBJ export into 3DCoat, retopo, uv unwrap, and then export that OBJ into Keyshot, but my inkling is that it is possible. (I do not have 3DCoat yet, but would love to purchase if I could find someone who knows THIS workflow could be a reality).
Quote from: dmerziii on January 05, 2017, 01:13:47 PM
Martin, I'm curious, have you ever used 3DCoat?
I've seen some tutorials by Chipp W, in which he takes a MoI3d hard surface model, does some "3d-painting" with 3DCoat, then exports those maps into Keyshot, and everything seemingly lines up.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lk_6SsRfmAg
What I haven't seen is someone take a Moi OBJ export into 3DCoat, retopo, uv unwrap, and then export that OBJ into Keyshot, but my inkling is that it is possible. (I do not have 3DCoat yet, but would love to purchase if I could find someone who knows THIS workflow could be a reality).
I couldn't get on with 3D-Coat I found it all very unintuitive. I know it has some excellent tools for sculpting and painting and the retopo tools are considered to be some of the best in the world so it's auto UV generation is supposedly really good too, however I could not get over the interface and struggled like hell with it, you might find it easy so I would suggest playing with the trial and see how you go.
I did start writing my theory for beginners to UV mapping that I wanted to complete before Christmas but sadly my wife was forced to go into a care home by the powers that be, and sadly that means I have been too distracted and don't have time to complete it for now, but I will happily post what I have written up to now if you think it might help you understand things a little better.
Martin
Martin, very unfortunate to hear about your wife's situation. :-\
I cannot imagine the difficulty in that process. Hoping the circumstances shift in a positive manner soon, man. Thanks for all your help here and elsewhere on the forums. I see your posts often, and they're always very informative; much respect.
Either way, do not mean to rush you on your informative theory to be. If anyone else does have some insights on 3DCoat or other techniques, it'd be greatly appreciated! (otherwise, we'll be trying out the demo version soon!)
Here's our situation.
We're encountering a potential need in the near future to figure out a solve for UV mapping. Unfortunately, many of our models are provided to us via CAD, and we do our best to work around those limitations. Most of the time it doesn't need UV mapping, but for a particular part, we're going to need a solve for it soon. It's a bit more complex and unfortunately, not a part we can just remodel ourselves in a timely manner with a polygonal modeler.
Not to mention, we need it to be accurate. So my hope is this hunch with 3DCoat might be the solve we're looking for.
Anyway, thanks again Martin, feel free to share what you have, but totally understand if it's not ready to share yet!
Quote from: dmerziii on January 05, 2017, 03:13:42 PM
Martin, very unfortunate to hear about your wife's situation. :-\
I cannot imagine the difficulty in that process. Hoping the circumstances shift in a positive manner soon, man. Thanks for all your help here and elsewhere on the forums. I see your posts often, and they're always very informative; much respect.
Either way, do not mean to rush you on your informative theory to be. If anyone else does have some insights on 3DCoat or other techniques, it'd be greatly appreciated! (otherwise, we'll be trying out the demo version soon!)
Here's our situation.
We're encountering a potential need in the near future to figure out a solve for UV mapping. Unfortunately, many of our models are provided to us via CAD, and we do our best to work around those limitations. Most of the time it doesn't need UV mapping, but for a particular part, we're going to need a solve for it soon. It's a bit more complex and unfortunately, not a part we can just remodel ourselves in a timely manner with a polygonal modeler.
Not to mention, we need it to be accurate. So my hope is this hunch with 3DCoat might be the solve we're looking for.
Anyway, thanks again Martin, feel free to share what you have, but totally understand if it's not ready to share yet!
These are just drafts and are only one page each so won't take long to read, I will try and muster some time over the next few days and cover CAD models and the processes you can take to separate and trim to help with texture mapping.
Martin
:) Thank you Martin, much appreciated, going to take a look at these RIGHT NOW!
Quote from: dmerziii on January 06, 2017, 01:49:46 PM
:) Thank you Martin, much appreciated, going to take a look at these RIGHT NOW!
Part 4 added to the list above - I will write part 5 when I get the chance, hopefully over the weekend if not before.
Martin
Thanks again Martin, these are very well written and concise. Definitely helps one get a grasp of the complexities of the problem!
I do have some interesting news for anyone looking for a short-term solution. I downloaded the free 30-day demo of VRED Pro just to try to see if their new UV Editor worked as advertised (see video attached). They claim it will work out unwrapping for meshes produced from NURBs modelling programs.
It took several hours of trial and error, but I was able to get a good result on a rounded cube like surface shown earlier in this thread from a surface originally modeled in MOI3D. Unwrapped the OBJ in VRED, then exported another OBJ, which I was able to map a 2D texture seamlessly in Keyshot.
Helpful hint for anyone who wants to try it out themselves. I followed the steps in the video, however I also used the "Unwrap Islands" button several times afterwards in order to "straighten" out the flattened mesh. At first it was bending over itself, so several dozen "clicks" on the "Unwrap Island" button helped untangle it for me. (Also note, you'll need to select the island in the UV editor by holding shift and dragging. This took a while for me to discover, so I thought I would help anyone wondering.
I also tried to get a result from 3DCoat using another free trial, but wasn't able to get a "seamless" texture to wrap over a rounded cube in Keyshot. I'm sure it is due to a lack of understanding on my part, and not that it is incapable of doing so, VRED just made the problem a little easier to solve, albeit, after many hours of trying. (if I were doing 3D 'painting', 3DCoat, solved that issue in seconds).
The only problem is, I cannot afford VRED, and my trial will be over in just a couple of weeks. We do not run into this UV problem often enough to justify getting a subscription. SO HOPEFULLY LUXION CAN INCORPORATE THIS INTO KEYSHOT SOMEDAY! =)
I feel like that was a lot of text, and no pretty pictures. So I redid my process using a simple rounded surface from MOI3D very similar to the shape I had originally worked with.
1st Image is MOI3D surface modeled (NURBs)
2nd Image is OBJ export out of MOI3D (triangular mesh, which works Keyshot import later).
3rd Image is in VRED (the texture is a UV Checker map to show what you are dealing with before the unwrap process).
4th Image is after the Unwrapping technique in VRED, you can see, it isn't perfect, but pretty good for my purposes.
5th Image is the Before (in front) and After (in back) using a procedural polygon diffuse map. The materials are linked, exactly the same, mapping mode is obviously UV.
Hope this helps!
Looks pretty impressive - How responsive is VRed these days? I found it very slow when I tested it, even with 24 cores on Xeon v2
Martin
:) It is only my first time using it just this week, but it seems fairly responsive. Granted, I've only been using it to UV unwrap this ONE object, and haven't used it for anything else it is actually supposed to do. (I'm also using a pretty beefy Dual XEON E-5-2660 v3 cpu machine with 64GB ram.)
I'm also pleased we finally found something that could actually solve this major issue. Unfortunately, we won't be buying a license because we just don't have a need for VRED otherwise, and UV issues don't arise with every job, just once in a while, and always a pain since we're receiving the CAD from different sources every time.
It does give me hope that there is now a piece of code out there that makes this possible.
Quote from: dmerziii on January 12, 2017, 08:04:49 AM
:) It is only my first time using it just this week, but it seems fairly responsive. Granted, I've only been using it to UV unwrap this ONE object, and haven't used it for anything else it is actually supposed to do. (I'm also using a pretty beefy Dual XEON E-5-2660 v3 cpu machine with 64GB ram.)
I'm also pleased we finally found something that could actually solve this major issue. Unfortunately, we won't be buying a license because we just don't have a need for VRED otherwise, and UV issues don't arise with every job, just once in a while, and always a pain since we're receiving the CAD from different sources every time.
It does give me hope that there is now a piece of code out there that makes this possible.
My current workflow is fairly simple ...
- CAD --> STEP
- STEP --> KeyShot with Tessellation .2 or .3
If the model does not map correctly or is problematic then work out the problems. If faces are facing wrong direction then flip with the KS Geometry Editor. If that doesn't fix things or if there are still mapping issues then it's time to call on other apps.
- STEP --> MoI3D for editing the model.
- MoI3D --> OBJ using angle 40 and using NGons.
- OBJ --> Blender for UV Unwrapping and repairing the mesh object topology and applying Sub Division modifier(s) suitable for render views. If doing close ups then more SubD levels are required. You can do Low to Extreme mesh density and export as you go along, this way you can import the right model with the right amount of density for the view to be rendered. You can export the UV Unwrapping as a bitmap to whatever resolution 4K for example for hand painting materials and or textures.
- Blender --> Render ready OBJ for use with KS
The above workflow is the subject of Part5 which I have started to write but need more time to complete.
Martin
Part 5 added to list posted above
Martin
Excellent Martin, thanks once more for sharing your process. I am not traditionally a 3D guy, I come from a graphic design/photography background, and have been trying to learn a lot of this stuff on my own accord.
It's very helpful to have it spelled out and gain some exposure through more experienced 3D designers.
Appreciate your help on this! I have played with Blender's UV editor before, and I think I get overwhelmed because I export a super fine mesh with MOI3D instead of going from a "crude export" followed by the sub-D route. Now that you mention you're going as high as 40 degrees on the N-Gons, I should try that, would definitely make the seams easier to follow. ;)
Looking forward to the next right up, as re-topology is a concept I understand in theory but do not always grasp fully in practice.
(I also need some more practice with Blender, the UI is not as intuitive as MOI3D!)
Quote from: dmerziii on January 16, 2017, 08:25:47 AM
Excellent Martin, thanks once more for sharing your process. I am not traditionally a 3D guy, I come from a graphic design/photography background, and have been trying to learn a lot of this stuff on my own accord.
It's very helpful to have it spelled out and gain some exposure through more experienced 3D designers.
Appreciate your help on this! I have played with Blender's UV editor before, and I think I get overwhelmed because I export a super fine mesh with MOI3D instead of going from a "crude export" followed by the sub-D route. Now that you mention you're going as high as 40 degrees on the N-Gons, I should try that, would definitely make the seams easier to follow. ;)
Looking forward to the next right up, as re-topology is a concept I understand in theory but do not always grasp fully in practice.
(I also need some more practice with Blender, the UI is not as intuitive as MOI3D!)
2D Garden designer back in the day and a photographer too. The latter has helped a lot when rendering but I was mainly outdoors photography
so lighting was not such a big deal. I think Modo and Lightwave are probably the finest poly modelling apps. Blender is very much like Maya with regards to modelling, Blender is quicker though once you get the hang of it.
I have written part of the next guide, which is probably enough to get you through the process of repairing the model and getting some better topology, I can post it later if you want to have a read and a go at it to see how far you get, otherwise it might still take me a few days to write it all up to where the model parts are all re-unitied with decent mesh flow
Martin
:) Thanks Martin, please take your time, your efforts have already paid off tremendously, already!
That being said, I am still very interested in what your next set will include. But I can wait until they're ready.
I have taken another look into Blender. It actually came in handy yesterday when we needed to simulate a draped piece of cloth, and the nice thing about starting with the polygonal modeler there was the UVs were easy to unwrap in one click. Powerful program indeed, and when used with Keyshot, we're getting some great results. Very pleased.
Ahhh. I was so happy when i first simulated cloth in Blender ! Combine that with some Poliigon fabric textures and UV and you will be drooling all over your screen :P