KeyShot Forum

Technical discussions => General discussion => Topic started by: Chris McSweyn on June 09, 2021, 11:27:42 am

Title: Render Queue Problem (Answered, I think, but not happy)
Post by: Chris McSweyn on June 09, 2021, 11:27:42 am
When I try to add Studios or Model Sets only one shows in the queue after adding several.

For example,
I choose "Add Studios"
I have 4 studios "Checked" (all with different names)
I choose "Add"
Computer stuff happens..
Only the last studio is shown in queue

Started happening after the 10.2 update.
Version 10.2.104
Title: Re: Render Queue Problem
Post by: Eric Summers on June 09, 2021, 12:50:24 pm
First thing to check is that your target drive has enough space to write all four studios to it, KS saves two files per task to the target drive.
Title: Re: Render Queue Problem
Post by: Chris McSweyn on June 10, 2021, 04:23:04 pm
Ok. I'm not sure why but it seems to be adding my studios or model sets as a multi frame Configuration.
I'm not sure what changed but I'm super confused. If I click on the Configurator tab in the Render window it says that there are no configurations present in the scene.
This is not allowing me to name each render using the Active Studio or Active Model Set.  >:(
Title: Re: Render Queue Problem
Post by: mattjgerard on June 11, 2021, 07:17:32 am
This was a change from previous KS versions, it packs all the similar renders into a single line item in the queue. I don't like it either, I'd like to see each one. The only reason why it might be this was is if they finally adapted somehow from previous version creating a whole other KS file for each render (lots of huge files) to being able to use just one instance of the KS file for rendering and reading the different settings within that file for the different configurations. I used to run out of drive space with all the different configs I sent to my network renderer.
Title: Re: Render Queue Problem
Post by: Chris McSweyn on June 11, 2021, 08:20:19 am
This breaks custom naming using active studio or active model set. So now when I render out 12 studios, I can no longer have each active studio be each output file name. I now need to rename every file. I really hope that there's a workaround to this.
Title: Re: Render Queue Problem
Post by: Eric Summers on June 11, 2021, 10:49:14 am
This was a change from previous KS versions, it packs all the similar renders into a single line item in the queue. I don't like it either, I'd like to see each one. The only reason why it might be this was is if they finally adapted somehow from previous version creating a whole other KS file for each render (lots of huge files) to being able to use just one instance of the KS file for rendering and reading the different settings within that file for the different configurations. I used to run out of drive space with all the different configs I sent to my network renderer.
Matt, was this a change between 10.1 and 10.2? I just loaded up a queue of Studios and they are listed out individually (in 10.1).
Title: Re: Render Queue Problem (Answered, I think, but not happy)
Post by: A.Frosinn on June 12, 2021, 01:13:06 am
This is am MAJOR PROBLEM for my workflow.
I do a lot of Renderings for my company and there is a fatal bug in the configurator architecture: If multiple Studios are  rendered as a configuration, THE DEPH OF FIELD WILL NOT BE ADJUSTED! I suspect is overwritten from the current camera setting on all renders, but not taken from the camera settings stored in the studio. So I end up with images with wrong focal planes and blur. The problem existed before the conversion, which is why I could never use the configurator, but had to save all perspectives as individual studios.

I really hope this will be fixed soon, because otherwise i will be forced to use V9 again, because i can't spend like 5 houres to put 300 Studios into the queue one by one.
Title: Re: Render Queue Problem
Post by: Chris McSweyn on June 14, 2021, 10:00:45 am
This was a change from previous KS versions, it packs all the similar renders into a single line item in the queue. I don't like it either, I'd like to see each one. The only reason why it might be this was is if they finally adapted somehow from previous version creating a whole other KS file for each render (lots of huge files) to being able to use just one instance of the KS file for rendering and reading the different settings within that file for the different configurations. I used to run out of drive space with all the different configs I sent to my network renderer.
Matt, was this a change between 10.1 and 10.2? I just loaded up a queue of Studios and they are listed out individually (in 10.1).

I was using 10.1 and this is the first that I've seen. Can this be a change that is selectable in preferences or something?
Title: Re: Render Queue Problem (Answered, I think, but not happy)
Post by: TGS808 on June 22, 2021, 02:11:55 pm
This is a peculiar and seemingly arbitrary change.

So... you send four studios to the cue, and one job shows up but it says "frame count" is 4 next to it. In the network queue, the type is listed as "Configuration" vs "image" for a still. KS then makes a new folder in the location where you send your renders, proceeds to render all four studios, and then puts those four images into the folder it made along with a "meta" file (whatever that is) for each one. And as A.Frosinn very correctly pointed out, your DoF data on all but the first image is gone. Either there is something we are all missing about how this works or some one at Luxion made a colossal mistake in 10.2. I've been through the documentation and I can't find anything to explain it. Maybe someone from Luxion can? As A.Frosinn said, this is a major issue.
Title: Re: Render Queue Problem (Answered, I think, but not happy)
Post by: Justin A on June 23, 2021, 11:13:28 am
Currently we are aware of this, as this was a change that we made to optimize the sending of data from the queue.
We have taken note of the impact to users work flow and we are looking in to what steps need to be made to correct this.
We will have some information regarding what we will do and when it will be done shortly.


Thank you,
Justin Adams
Support manager
Luxion makers of KeyShot
Title: Re: Render Queue Problem (Answered, I think, but not happy)
Post by: TGS808 on June 23, 2021, 06:26:33 pm
Thanks Justin. Hope this gets sorted soon. Even if it worked exactly as Luxion had planned, this change was made (as far as I can tell) without any fanfare or documentation of it as a new feature or new methodology. Users were left to decipher what was going on, on our own. Sending studios to the queue has worked consistently, the same way since studios were introduced. And now (without warning that something different would happen) I send multiple jobs to the queue, only to see a single entry appear and so, delete it and try again because I think something went wrong. I did this several times before I remembered this thread started by Chris McSweyn.
Title: Re: Render Queue Problem (Answered, I think, but not happy)
Post by: Niko Planke on June 24, 2021, 03:53:58 am
Hello,

We are currently discussing a solution for this.
To make sure we did not overlook any workflow, i would like to make sure our understanding of the issues is correct.

As far as our understanding goes we have 2 major issues with how it now works (in 10.2):
1. The naming templates are not applied, hence its impossible to see the difference for the rendered studios.
2. The DoF is not applied correctly when rendered as a “Configuration Job”

Also it is not clear from the UI that the single entry in the Queue covers over multiple renderings.
While there is a “frame Count” column that could hint it, it appears to not be visible on all systems without using the scrollbar in the queue window.

To give some insight into why the change was made.

When submitting a Job to network rendering using “add studios” in 10.1 it would send the entire file for each Studio.
For large files with many Studios this results in a significant amount of data send back and forth.

By bundling the studios in on Job (as it is done in 10.2)the file would only need to be send to the Manager Computer once and then be reused for all the studios.
Sadly this change had some unforeseen side effects as you discussed above and also exposed a Bug related to DoF.
The change was mentioned in the change log as  “Model sets and Studios can now be added as a single job to rendering queue.“.

If we have overlooked a workflow or an issue please let us know for us to take them into account when finding a solution.

Niko
Title: Re: Render Queue Problem (Answered, I think, but not happy)
Post by: TGS808 on June 24, 2021, 05:10:46 pm
Also it is not clear from the UI that the single entry in the Queue covers over multiple renderings.
While there is a “frame Count” column that could hint it, it appears to not be visible on all systems without using the scrollbar in the queue window.

Now that I know what's going on, the "frame count" makes sense but the terminology could possibly be improved. Personally, I think of a frame as part of an animation. When sending a studio to the queue where the expected result is a single still image, "frame" doesn't make sense (even though a frame is technically a single still image). Maybe instead of "frame count" it could be called "studio count". So, I if send four studios to the queue, there would be a single entry in the list but something that indicates four studios will be rendered. Also, referring to the "type" as a "configuration" is also strangely termed. Especially since KS has a feature called the "configurator". I think it needs a different term.

Quote
To give some insight into why the change was made.

When submitting a Job to network rendering using “add studios” in 10.1 it would send the entire file for each Studio.
For large files with many Studios this results in a significant amount of data send back and forth.

By bundling the studios in on Job (as it is done in 10.2)the file would only need to be send to the Manager Computer once and then be reused for all the studios.
Sadly this change had some unforeseen side effects as you discussed above and also exposed a Bug related to DoF.

In theory it all seems like a good idea but that DoF bug really kills the whole thing. That's really my biggest issue.

Quote
The change was mentioned in the change log as  “Model sets and Studios can now be added as a single job to rendering queue.“.

I didn't see this but it seems like it should say "Model sets and Studios will now be added as a single job to rendering queue" since there isn't an option to do it any other way.
Title: Re: Render Queue Problem (Answered, I think, but not happy)
Post by: Chris McSweyn on June 25, 2021, 02:06:35 pm
Hello,

We are currently discussing a solution for this.
To make sure we did not overlook any workflow, i would like to make sure our understanding of the issues is correct.

As far as our understanding goes we have 2 major issues with how it now works (in 10.2):
1. The naming templates are not applied, hence its impossible to see the difference for the rendered studios.
2. The DoF is not applied correctly when rendered as a “Configuration Job”

Also it is not clear from the UI that the single entry in the Queue covers over multiple renderings.
While there is a “frame Count” column that could hint it, it appears to not be visible on all systems without using the scrollbar in the queue window.

To give some insight into why the change was made.

When submitting a Job to network rendering using “add studios” in 10.1 it would send the entire file for each Studio.
For large files with many Studios this results in a significant amount of data send back and forth.

By bundling the studios in on Job (as it is done in 10.2)the file would only need to be send to the Manager Computer once and then be reused for all the studios.
Sadly this change had some unforeseen side effects as you discussed above and also exposed a Bug related to DoF.
The change was mentioned in the change log as  “Model sets and Studios can now be added as a single job to rendering queue.“.

If we have overlooked a workflow or an issue please let us know for us to take them into account when finding a solution.

Niko

Niko,
For the naming, it's important to people with workflow like me, that the studio or model set names carry all the way through to the output file name like they used to when you chose the option. So, for example, if I have 10 studios named for a different model each, when rendered with "Active Studio" selected I get 10 files each with the corresponding studio name. 

Title: Re: Render Queue Problem (Answered, I think, but not happy)
Post by: Niko Planke on July 06, 2021, 10:25:07 am
Hey,

We just made a hotfix available, it includes various fixes, as well as changes to how add model sets and add studios work.

To avoid confusion here is a quick summary of how it will behave now:
Adding Model Sets, Studios or Multi-Materials from the still image tab via the button in the Queue window will be shown as a single bundled render job (Configuration) in the queue.
Clicking the button multiple times will add multiple bundles.
Even though it is displayed as one render job, the output will still result in multiple still images in your output folder.
Render jobs will follow the Name Template of the active tab in the render output settings when added via the Queue.

I hope that resolves some of the limitations you experienced.

Niko
Title: Re: Render Queue Problem (Answered, I think, but not happy)
Post by: Eric Summers on July 16, 2021, 08:11:18 am
Perhaps somewhere down the road it would be nice to have a drop down arrow to expand the job in the render queue list to see the individual renders that are bundled together. That would help when you need to confirm that you selected all the studios you intended to add. For the time being though, I'm just glad I was able to update to 10.2!
Title: Re: Render Queue Problem (Answered, I think, but not happy)
Post by: Eric Summers on July 21, 2021, 08:32:07 am
Hey,

We just made a hotfix available, it includes various fixes, as well as changes to how add model sets and add studios work.

To avoid confusion here is a quick summary of how it will behave now:
Adding Model Sets, Studios or Multi-Materials from the still image tab via the button in the Queue window will be shown as a single bundled render job (Configuration) in the queue.
Clicking the button multiple times will add multiple bundles.
Even though it is displayed as one render job, the output will still result in multiple still images in your output folder.
Render jobs will follow the Name Template of the active tab in the render output settings when added via the Queue.

I hope that resolves some of the limitations you experienced.

Niko

Hey Niko,

Is the intended behavior to output a folder of the bundled renders inside of my destination folder? This is a new behavior from 10.1 and I personally don't much care for it. If it was an option to create a folder within the destination folder that would be fine, but now I have to move files up a level and delete the folder that was created from the bundled renders.
Title: Re: Render Queue Problem (Answered, I think, but not happy)
Post by: Chris McSweyn on July 23, 2021, 10:59:51 am
Hey,

We just made a hotfix available, it includes various fixes, as well as changes to how add model sets and add studios work.

To avoid confusion here is a quick summary of how it will behave now:
Adding Model Sets, Studios or Multi-Materials from the still image tab via the button in the Queue window will be shown as a single bundled render job (Configuration) in the queue.
Clicking the button multiple times will add multiple bundles.
Even though it is displayed as one render job, the output will still result in multiple still images in your output folder.
Render jobs will follow the Name Template of the active tab in the render output settings when added via the Queue.

I hope that resolves some of the limitations you experienced.

Niko

Hey Niko,

Is the intended behavior to output a folder of the bundled renders inside of my destination folder? This is a new behavior from 10.1 and I personally don't much care for it. If it was an option to create a folder within the destination folder that would be fine, but now I have to move files up a level and delete the folder that was created from the bundled renders.

I agree with this.
Also, before, I could name the studios with different names and leave the main output name blank + Active studio. This would give me files with the names that I wanted. Now I need to fill in the output name because it names the parent folder, otherwise I get an error. It seems like nothing but it's just one of those "un-needed" extra steps now. Here's an example:
Let's say I'm rendering Apples, Oranges and Pears

Studios:
Apple on tree
Apple on ground
Orange on tree
Orange on ground
Pear on tree
Pear on ground

Before:

Name (Blank) + Active Studio

Files:
Apple on tree.png
Apple on ground.png
Orange on tree.png
Orange on ground.png
Pear on tree.png
Pear on ground.png

Now:

Name (Fruit) + Active Studio

FOLDER - Fruit
Files:
Fruit.Apple on tree.png
Fruit.Apple on ground.png
Fruit.Orange on tree.png
Fruit.Orange on ground.png
Fruit.Pear on tree.png
Fruit.Pear on ground.png

I now need to remove "Fruit." from every file name.
Title: Re: Render Queue Problem (Answered, I think, but not happy)
Post by: CNG on August 16, 2021, 07:29:14 pm
Quote
Render jobs will follow the Name Template of the active tab in the render output settings when added via the Queue.

Hi Niko,

I like the bundle up function it really shorten file transfer time and the "Active Studio" under Name Template exports renderings named by their own Studio.

Charon