Pyramid shaped 3D bumps.... how... ?

[a_f_a]

Hi all and as it is New Year evening, I wish to all of you Happy New Year and a super creative 2017 :-)

It is some time now that i am trying to achieve and effect like the one shown here :
https://postimg.org/image/4ya4zicxv/  (sorry system does not upload image)
(the pyramid shaped series of bumps we see in knobs or in watch crowns).
I tried to make it with normal bumps by using photoshop and the nvidia relevant software by creating the following images :
https://postimg.org/image/jpbazlhbh/ (sorry system does not upload image)
but the result was to get the map but not to be 3dimensional. So, i would like to ask, is it possible to achieve this effect with bumps or i need to model them in 3d? If i can, is there a tool, process, technique you may suggest (or link to tutorial)?

Thanks a lot!

[Speedster]

Knurling is very common on machine and medical parts, and I've never had any luck with a bump in KeyShot.  Unfortunately, for the best effect you really need to model them.
Bill G

[LayC42]

The normal map looks wrong. Does the color of every side of the pyramid has to be in another color. And I'm sure, that there is an example in the default KeyShot library.

[tqped]

I model them too,
in zbrush with nanobrush its easy.

[Finema]

Hi
With a normal map (knurl_normal.jpg in keyshot materials) you can have a good result.

[a_f_a]

@Speedster, as English is not my native language I did not know the name of this texture, so thanks for bringing it up :-) helps me in my search for techniques/effects :-)
@ LayC42, no need for colors. I just made every face different color, just to give different "level" to each face. Apparently i failed.
@tqped,Finema, much appreciated your time to show me examples. I use Rhino and Keyshot. My keyshot does not have knurl map in its library. I will try to check online if there is a material to download. Thanks, this is exactly what i wanted!
Happy New Year to you all! :-)

[a_f_a]

@tqped,Finema, one more question. In tqped's render, if you see the edges of the surface, you see that the knurl's 3d shape, while in Finema's, the knurl looks 3dimensional on the flat surface but in the edge is straight, like the geometry of the cylinder the bump is applied..
Keyshot cannot make it really look 3d in the edge (zbursh is more powerful?) or there is a difference in the settings?
Thanks

[Finema]

Hi
You can find the normal map file here > see my screenshot
If not i join the file in attachment

[INNEO_MWo]

@ LayC42, no need for colors. I just made every face different color, just to give different "level" to each face. Apparently i failed.

In the texture below, you see the different colors of each pyramid side. And that is typically of a normal map. It is quite different to your example.

And to answer your KeyShot / ZBrush question. ZBrush will manipulate the geometry, so you'll see the pyramid shape on the silhouette, too. KeyShot render reflections/light and shadows as the geometry has this shape, but didn't manipulate the polygons.

Hope that helped a bit.

Cheers
Marco

[Esben Oxholm]

@tqped,Finema, one more question. In tqped's render, if you see the edges of the surface, you see that the knurl's 3d shape, while in Finema's, the knurl looks 3dimensional on the flat surface but in the edge is straight, like the geometry of the cylinder the bump is applied..
Keyshot cannot make it really look 3d in the edge (zbursh is more powerful?) or there is a difference in the settings?

It is not so much about KeyShot vs. Zbrush in this case, but rather modeling the details vs. using a bump/normal-map.
In tqped's rendering the knurled pattern is modelled while in Finema's it's "faked" using a normal map.

Generally speaking, normal maps are quick to apply and good for small height variations in the surface and details not to be seen up close, whereas modeling the details is necessary for high quality close-ups.

[a_f_a]

@Finema, thanks a lot the info/material. Used it, followed your screenshots and managed to achieve the effect :-)
@Marco @ Esben, thank you both for clarifying the techniques used for the examples shown. I had the impression that  with normal bumps I could achieve silhouette geometry effect as well but apparently it seems that this is not the case. Esben you gave a useful guideline on when to use each technique.

[Esben Oxholm]

@Marco @ Esben, thank you both for clarifying the techniques used for the examples shown. I had the impression that  with normal bumps I could achieve silhouette geometry effect as well but apparently it seems that this is not the case. Esben you gave a useful guideline on when to use each technique.

Sure. If you could add the normal map texture as a displacement map, the actual geometry would be altered, thus making the silhouette looking correct as well. But this is not possible in KeyShot (yet?).