Keyshot n00b - Automotive | Advice welcome

Seethegrim · January 08, 2018, 12:45:11 AM

Hey folks

So I've been messing with Keyshot for a couple days now & watched as many tutorials I can on YouTube relating to Keyshot + automotive. As a commercial automotive photographer, the desire to venture into messing with CGI has always been there, but never had the know-how to actually try it myself. I was an avid Bryce user when I was a teenager, so understand the basic principles of 3D (many, many moons ago

). In the past, I've collaborated with post production houses before on CGI projects, but they're good at what they do & I've always stuck to photography which is what I get paid to do.

In any case, I could really do with some tips on achieving more realistic results, because ultimately for me, the hyper-realistic render is what will help me with my actual career when I do these personal projects. Real work will always be with actual teams, but I like messing around myself & learning new things.

So please, give me your best/harshest critique. I need it.

ps: Just a thought, I know this is probably for another thread, but all the research I've done on automotive cgi work seems to point to vray/corona being used as the render engine for multiple 3d programs. Does Keyshot support v-ray/corona as a render engine? Or will it at some point?

Magnus Skogsfjord · January 08, 2018, 02:23:46 AM

Ain't much n00b about this in my opinion. Looks really nice!

mattjgerard · January 08, 2018, 06:13:10 AM

Um, yeah, really. Nothing much to comment on here exept those are some pretty sexy shots.

So, my opinion is that you already have whats hardest to achieve, and that is the eye for what makes a great image. You obviously already have tons of experience with that. Now its just a matter of learning a new tool to get you there, and from what I've seen, these are some great images. Hopefully Nils, our local car guy (one of many) will chime in as well. I'm not an automotive guy, so all I can do is look at your images and say "Yep, looks fantastic."

Seethegrim · January 08, 2018, 06:35:31 AM

Quote from: mattjgerard on January 08, 2018, 06:13:10 AM
Um, yeah, really. Nothing much to comment on here exept those are some pretty sexy shots.

So, my opinion is that you already have whats hardest to achieve, and that is the eye for what makes a great image. You obviously already have tons of experience with that. Now its just a matter of learning a new tool to get you there, and from what I've seen, these are some great images. Hopefully Nils, our local car guy (one of many) will chime in as well. I'm not an automotive guy, so all I can do is look at your images and say "Yep, looks fantastic."

Thanks man. Yeah, look I've only been (trying) to use Keyshot for a few days now, so its all very very new to me. I feel like I've just scratched the surface & there is definitely a lot more to learn on how to achieve that hyper-realism look. Its by far the easiest to learn program I've ever used, so I'd like to stick with it & really see how much I can push it.

I hope the car guys can help me get things even further.

Will Gibbons · January 08, 2018, 07:02:25 AM

Like others said, great images! I like the mis-matched color Lambo the best.

Quote from: Seethegrim on January 08, 2018, 12:45:11 AM
Does Keyshot support v-ray/corona as a render engine? Or will it at some point?

KeyShot is a standalone render engine, thus Vray is a competing product. In what way do you mean 'support'? I'm not sure there's any way KeyShot could support Vray that would be advantageous. Maybe I'm misunderstanding the question.

Seethegrim · January 08, 2018, 07:08:30 AM

Quote
KeyShot is a standalone render engine, thus Vray is a competing product. In what way do you mean 'support'? I'm not sure there's any way KeyShot could support Vray that would be advantageous. Maybe I'm misunderstanding the question.

Might also be my not understanding the platforms properly myself. VRay & Corona (from what I can tell) are 3rd party render engines to programs like Maya, 3dsmax, etc. So for example you can render out something from 3ds max using V-Ray OR Corona, depending on what you have installed. So my thinking was just that why can't it be the same for Keyshot.

But yeah, I'm a photographer, not a CGI artist, so I probably don't understand this all completely & just going from what I'm reading online.

mattjgerard · January 08, 2018, 08:11:02 AM

Yeah, Keyshot is similar to Vray/corona/octane, where thier main task is rendering and lighting. Its main use is not modeling and putting scenes together, although it certainly can do that to a certain extent. I'm a Cinema4D user, so I will use Cinema to model and layout all the geometry in my scene, seperate out parts with textures, and then use the Keyshot plugin to export that scene directly to a Keyshot file, then it into KS to light, texture and render.

Only difference from when I was using Octane is that Octane's plugin is live within the Cinema interface, whereas Keyshot is opened in its own app instance. And that Keyshot is 1000% easier to get going with than most 3rd party renders like the ones mentioned above. At this point its more about the artist using the tool that they feel fits the job the best, and the one they can get the best results from.

I used VRAY once, I opened it, played for 10 min and closed it. Huge learning curve, but as you can see, it can put out some amazing images. Any modern render engine can put out huge and awesome results with the right pilot at the controls. I see that you've got the chops, now pick your tool. And as it seems, if you are putting out images like this after only a few days, i'm excited to see what comes in a month or 6 of you using it. Keyshot is so fantastic for what it does for my needs, I don't ever see myself moving to a different renderer anytime soon. I have so much more to learn about KS.

Josh3D · January 08, 2018, 12:51:24 PM

Hey Seagram, welcome. I have to echo the others - these are all awesome.

Thomas Lovebelly · January 08, 2018, 03:02:38 PM

As a photographer myself using KS, the first thing you probably should look into is to study the HDRI Editor, adding light panels, mimic lights, it's where majority of the magic can be made and/or broken.
But also check how AO passes, Ray bounces, and above all else how various materials reacts to lighting. After that you get into DOF, Material generation, render pass outputs (so you can have more control over the final comps)

Like was mentioned before, KS is the easiest to get up to a decent speed on vs. the competition. But like anything else, the devil is in the details.

SergioBL · January 08, 2018, 04:22:20 PM

Really nice renders here!

Your photography skills will help you a ton making or simulating lights and shadows! Wich is pretty cool!!

Keep up the good work!
Cheers!

Nils Piirma · January 09, 2018, 03:34:18 AM

I'll chime in then

I really dig the 1st and the 3rd image. well composited

Hopefully my tips and tricks on my youtube channel helped out on some of these aswell. If that's the case then I feel proud that it's the case, not just drag and drop materials and going crazy with the lighting, more or less focusing more on the nitty gritty details also.

Well done!

Jslowsky · January 09, 2018, 09:34:03 AM

Really beautiful first effort, you can see that your skills of photography and composition (along with color choices) are in the upper tiers of experience. If you were to approach your subject as if it was a studio shot... then you would add isolated lights for such attributes as rim lighting, subject enhancements and blooms. I used to work for Mopar and have watched the photographers add numerous lights just to get an expected result. I really like you Iron Man version although I would put it in a scene where you could see Tony Stark's mansion in the distance

The next thing I would suggest is reviewing the automotive tutorials here on the forum, they are really good from some really good illustrators. You may begin to add motion blur to those wheels, debris bits off of those tires and specular blooms to an edge or two. I am most impressed with you composition and camera angles with relation to the whole scene, really good. Enjoy.

Seethegrim · January 10, 2018, 01:21:44 AM

Quote from: Nils Piirma on January 09, 2018, 03:34:18 AMHopefully my tips and tricks on my youtube channel helped out on some of these aswell. If that's the case then I feel proud that it's the case, not just drag and drop materials and going crazy with the lighting, more or less focusing more on the nitty gritty details also.

Yeah man, if it wasn't for your tutorials I'd have probably been 10x as lost! haha. I've still got a few of yours saved for "next on the learning list" because I wanted to just get my head around the basics first. Please keep making your tutorials because I'll be needing them! Anything around getting hyper-realism is gold to me.

Quote from: Jslowsky on January 09, 2018, 09:34:03 AM
Really beautiful first effort, you can see that your skills of photography and composition (along with color choices) are in the upper tiers of experience. If you were to approach your subject as if it was a studio shot... then you would add isolated lights for such attributes as rim lighting, subject enhancements and blooms. I used to work for Mopar and have watched the photographers add numerous lights just to get an expected result. I really like you Iron Man version although I would put it in a scene where you could see Tony Stark's mansion in the distance
The next thing I would suggest is reviewing the automotive tutorials here on the forum, they are really good from some really good illustrators. You may begin to add motion blur to those wheels, debris bits off of those tires and specular blooms to an edge or two. I am most impressed with you composition and camera angles with relation to the whole scene, really good. Enjoy.

Thanks man. I guess it does help, because if I know how to light cars in the real world. This feels almost too easy to add in lights in a program & get the same effect! Especially if I had to try a studio shot. I know in the real world I can produce 3-5 full exterior studio shots in a day -purely because getting lighting exact is such a meticulous process in a car studio. (see attachments of some of my real world studios). I also know that often less is more. I often still do commercial advertising shoots with completely natural light & just a shit load of scrims & reflectors. I think its easy to get over excited in a program where you CAN just add anything you want (without thinking about a lighting budget! haha). So going to always try keep the same thinking for my CGI attempts.

My next attempt will be motion blur in Keyshot. And then headlights. Headlights/tail lights, I think is super NB to get realistic & that I still need to work out in Keyshot. I haven't even tried it yet, so must tackle it.