Ice cream sandwich

zooropa · January 17, 2018, 08:18:07 AM

Some dobuts about rendering "food":

I am modeling an ice-cream sandwich in Modo. I still need to add a bite in it. The idea is to use it as a retail store sticker. It needs to be quite a decent quality to be percieved as a real ice cream.

Doubts:

- All the surfaces are one sided onlyl. Meaning the cookie and the cream dont have any thickness. Is it subsurface scattering working in these cases ? or I need a closed geometry ?

_ Is there anyway to recreate the bite within KS ? some kind of booleans ?

_ I am thinking in case I can not solve it in MODO. If it make the same geometry in Rhino with the bite. Do you think I can manage to texture it without UV. I am thinking that with solid and edge occlusion masks ...I could get far away.

Thank you very much.

Bruno

mattjgerard · January 17, 2018, 08:27:36 AM

Quote from: zooropa on January 17, 2018, 08:18:07 AM

_ Is there anyway to recreate the bite within KS ? some kind of booleans ?

No, not as of right now. People have gotten creative with various transparency and opacity mapping, and some other tweaks, but no real geometry boolean is available in KS, as modeling isn't its strenght right now. I know Cinema 4D can do that easily enough, so any 3D modeling app should be able to. Would be the right way to go, and make your work in KS much easier.

If youa re looking for realism, you can't get much better than image textures, might be tough to source some, as those are pretty specific, but would be worth a look. Even shooting your own image textures could work, but getting bump maps and normal maps and all that would be tricky.

There are some pros on here that have made some insane SSS effect food renders, so I'm sure they will chime in. Part of the intention of this long winded post is to subscribe to it so I can see the final result!

NM-92 · January 17, 2018, 10:50:03 AM

The legend tells that a mighty powerful Keyshot user once achieved some kind of boolean effect, even in animation. He was never seen again.

Will Gibbons · January 17, 2018, 10:57:36 AM

Quote from: NM-92 on January 17, 2018, 10:50:03 AM
The legend tells that a mighty powerful Keyshot user once achieved some kind of boolean effect, even in animation. He was never seen again.

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!

zooropa · January 18, 2018, 02:52:43 AM

Quote from: NM-92 on January 17, 2018, 10:50:03 AM
The legend tells that a mighty powerful Keyshot user once achieved some kind of boolean effect, even in animation. He was never seen again.

hahahahhahahhaha

zooropa · January 18, 2018, 02:57:03 AM

No, not as of right now. People have gotten creative with various transparency and opacity mapping, and some other tweaks, but no real geometry boolean is available in KS, as modeling isn't its strenght right now. I know Cinema 4D can do that easily enough, so any 3D modeling app should be able to. Would be the right way to go, and make your work in KS much easier.

If youa re looking for realism, you can't get much better than image textures, might be tough to source some, as those are pretty specific, but would be worth a look. Even shooting your own image textures could work, but getting bump maps and normal maps and all that would be tricky.

There are some pros on here that have made some insane SSS effect food renders, so I'm sure they will chime in. Part of the intention of this long winded post is to subscribe to it so I can see the final result!
[/quote]

Thanks a lot for your feedbac. I finally got a desired result in Modo. Exported to FBX (OBJ does not keep the scale).
I will try to upload the relevant parts of the process. I am glad you are joining.

Here are the UVs. Still not super happy with the "falling" UVs were the cookie has been eaten.
This screenshot is from MODO, but looks exactly the same in KS. Now I will try to research how to make the cookie and cream material!

zooropa · January 18, 2018, 06:59:29 AM

I am going further with this.
I think "advance material" works well. I am not sure if I need to use "transmission" parameters for a cookie. I will test both.
If you believe there is a better material template for the cookie than advance let me know.

A very important thing I need to achieve is color variations on it. Since the cookies are baked and getting golden kind of randmized. I tried with the granite texture. I can not manage to load two colorw to my granite. Its always one color and black. I think it will be nice to have the option of mixing in granite two different colors without needing to use all the utilities tweaking. I am sure its possible. I can research it lot of videos of Esben show how to make it I believe. I will check. If it happens you know how to do it quickly I will appreciate since I am going against the clock. Basically I need to bit the real photo from a camera man ...before Monday

I also think I will get a more realistic result if I apply some kind of darkening at the ocludded parts. Maybe I can use the curvature function. The cookies tend to be little but burn in the edges. Still I am super happy with how it looks with just minor tweakings.

TGS808 · January 18, 2018, 01:57:03 PM

Is there any reason you didn't model it as three separate parts? Two cookies and a section of ice cream? It would (in my opinion) help it to look more realistic and might also be easier to add materials/textures.

zooropa · January 19, 2018, 12:14:30 AM

Quote from: TGS808 on January 18, 2018, 01:57:03 PM
Is there any reason you didn't model it as three separate parts? Two cookies and a section of ice cream? It would (in my opinion) help it to look more realistic and might also be easier to add materials/textures.

There are 3 different parts!

zooropa · January 19, 2018, 02:32:53 AM

I think I found the right normal map from poligon to simulate the "crumbleness" of the cookie. I am satisfied.
I also tweaked the light to get better highlights. My reference image of the ice cream has some kind of varnish, glossiness feeling.
I bumped the Index of R little bit and the roughness. I also tweaked a little bit the reflection map (poliigon too) to get darker partas where the inner dents of the cookie are.

I think I will need to add (do not how) a color variation. My reference image has browner parts where the cookie goes inwards and lighter brown diffuse where the cookie having the little bumps. I am not talking about reflection, but diffuse change.

I wonder if i can tweak the colors with some of the textures that I am buying from poliigon.
https://www.poliigon.com/texture/ground-gravel-005

Maybe I can load two different browns in one of their diffuses

or reflection with black and white...
Is this possible _?

Thanks a lot

Will Gibbons · January 19, 2018, 06:48:15 AM

To get the variation of color, try this:

Use a noise texture, scale it up and choose color 1 and 2 and make them slightly different

or

Use a noise texture with a color texture and use a color composite node to multiply them

Images attached

zooropa · January 19, 2018, 07:00:17 AM

Quote from: Will Gibbons on January 19, 2018, 06:48:15 AM
To get the variation of color, try this:

Use a noise texture, scale it up and choose color 1 and 2 and make them slightly different

or

Use a noise texture with a color texture and use a color composite node to multiply them

Images attached

Thanks Will.
I used a few textures connected to color gradient node and then I tweaked the color.

This is my result so far:

I also applied darker colors to the indents of the cookie in order to get a more realistic material.
I added too a curvature node and applied with a multiply in order to get a "baked" feeling.

What do you think ? I think I would like to understand the translucent aspect of the advance material. I fell still do not look soft enough... It looks little bit plastic.

NM-92 · January 19, 2018, 09:36:05 AM

A roughness map will break the uniform reflections. Maybe that can help ? You can also try adding several bump maps to have different layers of imperfections on the cookie.

TGS808 · January 19, 2018, 10:28:47 AM

Quote from: zooropa on January 19, 2018, 12:14:30 AM
Quote from: TGS808 on January 18, 2018, 01:57:03 PM
Is there any reason you didn't model it as three separate parts? Two cookies and a section of ice cream? It would (in my opinion) help it to look more realistic and might also be easier to add materials/textures.

There are 3 different parts!

So it is.

In the other images the transition from cookie to ice cream was so smooth, it looked like only one to me.

Curvature node was a good idea. If you're going for realism, the edge of the cookie where the bite wast taken should probably have a different look to it than the overall baked edge.