water material [extremely slow]

[zooropa]

Hi.

After dealing with a really frustrating project (posted here). I jumped to a different one to clean my mind.

I recently did a render of a water can for someone. I am trying to improve it and make some renders to upload in my web.

Again, the bottleneck, I checked video on internet regarding water, caustics, etc in KS. I am watching a video made with KS4 ...and the render is quite fast. Of course I know the computer changes everything. Still I am running a Macbook Pro quite new. The one with higher specs. I would like to bother less in the forum, but unfortunately...the times are so slow that I can not manage to "learn" by touching...cause every change its killing me.

Now I brought a really really simple geometry made in Rhino. A water can (all cylinders) and a surface to assign water.
After 23 minutes and 23 minutes...I just see grains...

Yes I have the Render nurbs activated (I know slows things down) I just thought was needed for the sake of smoothing my water surface.

Few Questions:

1. Do the water ned a thickness or I can just get the same result using the surface of it (the water can is not transparent).
2. I activated caustics...since I want a realistic refraction hitting the inner sides of my watercan. Is this a problem timewise?
3. I did the surface of the water  little bit beyond the wall limit...to avoid overlapping meshes. wrong?

screenshot after  30 min




I can send the scene if needed in private.

Thanks so much and sorry for posting that much lately

[Will Gibbons]

Can you open the demo scene with the glass (see screen shot)? That should work well and allow you to explore.

This shows exactly how to create this effect... (use surface, no thickness for water) https://blog.keyshot.com/2016/render-liquid-glass-keyshot
Yes, you'll need caustics on for the result you want.
Overlapping the top of the water with the can wall surfaces should be fine in this case.

I don't understand why you insist on rendering with NURBS on. In all the time that I've used KeyShot (8 years), I have never needed to render NURBS. I think that is the main source of trouble. Multiple people here have pointed that out to you... we can only lead you to water.

[Esben Oxholm]

To answer question #2: You, caustics are render heavy. You might try switching to interior rendering mode as caustics tend to res-up faster with that.

[zooropa]

Can you open the demo scene with the glass (see screen shot)? That should work well and allow you to explore.

This shows exactly how to create this effect... (use surface, no thickness for water) https://blog.keyshot.com/2016/render-liquid-glass-keyshot
Yes, you'll need caustics on for the result you want.
Overlapping the top of the water with the can wall surfaces should be fine in this case.

I don't understand why you insist on rendering with NURBS on. In all the time that I've used KeyShot (8 years), I have never needed to render NURBS. I think that is the main source of trouble. Multiple people here have pointed that out to you... we can only lead you to water.

Thanks a lot for the info Will. I will check the blog.

I am ashamed that I am cranking your nerves hahahha I am sorry. I will try to explain why I use it:

When activated my model does not show jagged surfaces. I can send samples to clarify. On the other hand I did receive a lot of advice regarding of the time that "render nurbs" takes. However nobody told me "do not use it" . I think the honest thing to ask is what is the purpose of the function ? I do not need insisting anymore. I just perceive a better quality on my meshes. I might be wrong.

The other thing about UVs I asked, just for the sake of not keep adding questions and questions here, in the Rhino forum. They were the ones explaining to me that Rhino OS do not handle UV. Maybe they were wrong or the new version does.

Again Will, I am truly sorry, cause for me this forum is extremely important to keep learning. Thanks a lot for all your contributions.

[zooropa]

To answer question #2: You, caustics are render heavy. You might try switching to interior rendering mode as caustics tend to res-up faster with that.

Great great advice then. I think I need a new computer though.

[Will Gibbons]

Thanks a lot for the info Will. I will check the blog.

I am ashamed that I am cranking your nerves hahahha I am sorry. I will try to explain why I use it:

When activated my model does not show jagged surfaces. I can send samples to clarify. On the other hand I did receive a lot of advice regarding of the time that "render nurbs" takes. However nobody told me "do not use it" . I think the honest thing to ask is what is the purpose of the function ? I do not need insisting anymore. I just perceive a better quality on my meshes. I might be wrong.

The other thing about UVs I asked, just for the sake of not keep adding questions and questions here, in the Rhino forum. They were the ones explaining to me that Rhino OS do not handle UV. Maybe they were wrong or the new version does.

Again Will, I am truly sorry, cause for me this forum is extremely important to keep learning. Thanks a lot for all your contributions.

Zooropa, did you find a solution?

No need to apologize. You're not 'cranking my nerves'. We're just trying to help you get a nice looking image and it seems like part of your problem was render speed. By not rendering NURBS, I feel like it could help your situation. Usually, if you can export a higher tessellation from Rhino, your surface should not be jagged even with NURBS turned off. You can of course use it as long as you don't mind it taking longer to render.

As for UVs, I've seen people make it work and use it in Rhino, so perhaps the question was miscommunicated on the Rhino forum. Unless they changed something recently that I am not aware of, I think that Rhino does allow you to export a mesh with UVs.

Keep asking questions! Everyone is here to help. As long as everyone is respectful, nobody should be concerned of 'getting on anyone's nerves'. Enjoy your weekend. 

[zooropa]

Hi Will. I did a shot without water so far.

I think was not necessary and too much hassle with the things I have now. Every project was getting delayed by my ignorance ...so I decided to "cut" certain pretensions from my side. I guess water will come when I have more time or its more important for my shot.

I am sorry for taking that much time.

Rhino can UV, but you can not unwrapp. Not in OS version. So I can BOX, shere...etc/ Which does not work for my model

Thanks a lot Will

[Esben Oxholm]

Rhino can UV, but you can not unwrapp. Not in OS version. So I can BOX, shere...etc/ Which does not work for my model

Hi Zooropa. I have no experience doing this myself, but looks like some kind of unwrapping is happening here (at 7:17)
https://youtu.be/75cQX-iF8YA?t=7m16s

Might be helpful.
Cheers,

[zooropa]

Rhino can UV, but you can not unwrapp. Not in OS version. So I can BOX, shere...etc/ Which does not work for my model

Hi Zooropa. I have no experience doing this myself, but looks like some kind of unwrapping is happening here (at 7:17)
https://youtu.be/75cQX-iF8YA?t=7m16s

Might be helpful.
Cheers,

HI Esben! Thanks! (its Windows) I asked a few times at rhino forum and also tried myself. At least I could not find that function in OS/

[zooropa]

Yes, rechecked just in case. There is not UV unwrap in Rhino OS. It will be in 6 OS.

Regards.

[Esben Oxholm]

Yes, rechecked just in case. There is not UV unwrap in Rhino OS. It will be in 6 OS.

Ah, yeah. Didn't either that you were on Rhino OS and forgot about the differences between the win and os version. Too bad!