Author Topic: A Solution for Color Management Issues in KeyShot 4.2.35 (Mac)  (Read 4689 times)

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Offline MisterNeil

A Solution for Color Management Issues in KeyShot 4.2.35 (Mac)
« on: November 22, 2013, 01:41:44 pm »
Hello,

Since upgrading to KeyShot 4.2.35 (Mac) I have noticed the colors of my models were not matching when they were exported and viewed in Photoshop CS6 (Mac). I have recalibrated my EIZO monitor multiple times, thinking that would help the situation. With the new ICC profile, I confirmed that Photoshop, my System Preferences, and KeyShot were all using the same profile. Still, the image colors did not match between Photoshop and KeyShot.

After reviewing the KeyShot forums on this topic and after performing many tests, I believe I have a solution to the problem.

Steps:
1] Export a TIFF from KeyShot
2] Open TIFF in Photoshop CS6 and use the following settings:

When Missing Profile window appears choose: Assign Profile sRGB IEC61966-2.1 and check the box "and then convert document to working RGB"

3] Create an "Exposure" Adjustment layer with Gamma Correction set at 0.90. Other settings in this adjustment layer will stay at zero.
4] Set blend mode for Exposure Adjustment layer to "Luminosity".

The TIFF image in Photoshop now matches the model in KeyShot.

Neil

Offline Claus Jensen

Re: A Solution for Color Management Issues in KeyShot 4.2.35 (Mac)
« Reply #1 on: November 25, 2013, 03:11:12 am »
Please remember that the profile in KeyShot is only used for displaying the image.
All saved images are using the standard sRGB color space, so when the image goes into Photoshop then remember to set to source color space to sRGB if you do any conversion, otherwise you just need to read the file as a normal sRGB color space and display it with your selected profile.

I hope that makes sense.

Offline MisterNeil

Re: A Solution for Color Management Issues in KeyShot 4.2.35 (Mac)
« Reply #2 on: November 25, 2013, 07:49:46 am »
Hello Claus,

Thank you for your recent response. Are there plans to have images saved with the Adobe RGB (1998) color space in future versions of KeyShot? Its color gamut is much larger than the sRGB color space.

After reviewing your "What's New" website page announcing Color Management, I believe additional details should be added to it. The "What's New - KeyShot Color Management" page does not address the fact that KeyShot's Color Management is not applicable when matching images between various applications.

It would be very helpful to inform your users somewhere on this webpage that, "Since all saved images use the standard sRGB color space, steps will be needed when opening KeyShot images within applications like Photoshop. Please remember to set the source color space to sRGB in Photoshop if you do any conversion."

Lastly, I believe it would be ideal to update your KeyShot 4 PDF guides with these Color Management details as well. Color Management is briefly discussed in page 8 of your "KeyShot_4.2_Whats_New.pdf" and on page 29 of your "KeyShot_4.2_manual_en.pdf". However, there is no mentioning that KeyShot's Color Management is not applicable when matching images between various applications and what steps a user needs to perform to have images match in both KeyShot and in applications like Photoshop.

Adding these details to the Color Management website page as well as in your PDF documents would inform your users how to properly use Color Management in KeyShot.

Your comments are welcomed.

Neil

Offline flappinfish

Re: A Solution for Color Management Issues in KeyShot 4.2.35 (Mac)
« Reply #3 on: November 26, 2013, 01:34:51 pm »
Thanks for the thread on this I've been trying to figure out whats wrong all day!

If anyone at Keyshot is listening this needs to be addressed.

sRGB is not the color space that any images should be getting processed in. It is a vastly smaller space then Adobe RGB and only suitable for the web. Although compensations can be made in Photoshop the 2 images will never look exactly the same and for those of us who are painstakingly setting lighting to achieve a sense of luminosity, in metals for instance, we have now completely wasted our time.

I can't for the life of me understand why Keyshot would choose sRBG

Offline flappinfish

Re: A Solution for Color Management Issues in KeyShot 4.2.35 (Mac)
« Reply #4 on: November 26, 2013, 01:43:37 pm »
Hi Neil,

Thanks for the thread and what was probably some exhaustive testing on your end! As my post above explains I am less then thrilled to learn this. I am wondering what color space you are working in. When you "checked convert to color space" am I correct to assume that you are not using sRGB as your working color space? I always work in Adobe RBG 1998 unless specifically profiling for the web.

Thanks,
Alexi

Offline MisterNeil

Re: A Solution for Color Management Issues in KeyShot 4.2.35 (Mac)
« Reply #5 on: November 27, 2013, 07:16:49 am »
Hello Alexi,

Thank you for your comments regarding my recent posting. Yes, I use the Adobe RGB (1998) color space when working on RGB images in Photoshop. It is for this reason I was seeing a color difference every time I opened a KeyShot Tiff image in Photoshop. Once I discovered that KeyShot used the sRGB color space, I quickly made the necessary adjustments in Photoshop. Now my images match in both applications on screen.

Oddly enough, it appears that the sRGB color space is not even embedded in KeyShot Tiff images. When I open such an image in Photoshop, a window pops up reporting "Missing Profile". As I noted earlier, my solution was to first assign a profile to the image, then convert the color space to the one I use, Adobe RGB (1998). Both steps can be accomplished in this single window. I have attached a screenshot showing these details.

I too am surprised KeyShot uses the sRGB color space for Tiff output. What ever the reason is, I believe these details should now be included in their Color Management section of their website and KeyShot 4 PDF documentation.

Neil

Offline KeyShot

Re: A Solution for Color Management Issues in KeyShot 4.2.35 (Mac)
« Reply #6 on: November 27, 2013, 08:57:44 am »
We will look into outputting to Adobe RGB. In the meantime you can always output 128 bit TIFF (floating point) files or .exr files, which will allow a more precise conversion.

Offline DriesV

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Re: A Solution for Color Management Issues in KeyShot 4.2.35 (Mac)
« Reply #7 on: November 28, 2013, 07:37:26 am »
Wow! This is very confusing, indeed...

I had no idea either that saved images are in sRGB color space. It makes sense to do it (as it is so universal), but it is limiting postprocessing.
It would already be much clearer if the actual color profile is embedded in the image. Or that an image is tagged with the proper color space information in the metadata, so an image editor (or any other color managed application) knows where to start from...

AdobeRGB would be good.

Dries
« Last Edit: November 28, 2013, 07:39:01 am by DriesV »

Offline Speedster

Re: A Solution for Color Management Issues in KeyShot 4.2.35 (Mac)
« Reply #8 on: November 28, 2013, 10:51:32 am »
Wow- this blows my mind! 

I create giclee prints for printing on (mostly) Brilliant (company name) media on my Epson 4880, as well as for magazines. I've spent countless hours and media $$$ horsing around with adjustments and tests to capture what I see on my EIZO monitor in KeyShot, and what I see in CS5 and when printed.

Now this is starting to make sense.  I think!  Actually, I'm not sure, as it is confusing.  But it really needs to looked at carefully, as it's likely most of KeyShot work is for print.

And I use a Win7 PC, not Mac.  I wonder if this applies to both platforms?

Bill G

Offline hpvd

Re: A Solution for Color Management Issues in KeyShot 4.2.35 (Mac)
« Reply #9 on: December 08, 2014, 02:39:25 am »
fyi: there is a new topic addressing the complete topic of colour handling in keyshot
http://www.keyshot.com/forum/index.php?topic=9546.0

Offline edwardo

Re: A Solution for Color Management Issues in KeyShot 4.2.35 (Mac)
« Reply #10 on: December 08, 2014, 04:36:43 am »
@Bill.... Read a funny quote by Einstein the other day... "You don't truly understand something until you can explain it to your Granny"