bump map on top of label

[XD1]

Hello
Is there a way of having your bump map cover a label? Think water droplets on a beer. See sample. Droplets are covered by the label. The bump map that is.

Also I noticed the higher the bump depth the less light reflection. Is this due to the map? I looks more defined at 1 but at .25 you can see the bottle reflections better.

Also I was reading up on the foil label thread. I did the offeset a surface of the bottle thing. Which sort of worked. I was curious about doing it with an opacity map. Why can't you choose normal projection when doing opacity and bump maps? I only see box map and the planes etc?This is messing up my opacity map location and it's double sided as well with no option to turn off....

I also noticed that cylindrical mapping distorts the label. Why is that? Why not ratio lock? Proportion ratio seems off. I had to adjust the x a y scale separately to get close to what it should look like.

[guest84672]

You would have to apply the label as a texture in order to get the bump map to show in the label. We are looking at adding this capability to KeyShot 6.

[XD1]

You would have to apply the label as a texture in order to get the bump map to show in the label. We are looking at adding this capability to KeyShot 6.

How would you do this? The texture map is the bump map?

Why can't you choose normal projection when doing opacity and bump maps? I only see box map and the planes etc?This is messing up my opacity map location and it's double sided as well with no option to turn off....

I also noticed that cylindrical mapping distorts the label. Why is that? Why not ratio lock? Proportion ratio seems off. I had to adjust the x a y scale separately to get close to what it should look like.

[Rex]

jamesp,

At the moment there are two ways you can go about this:

1. If you're using the dielectric material for the bottle you can apply the label as a color map and the water drops as a bump map. The problem here is that the color map will then be "transparent" and will only work in certain circumstances. In the attached image, the two bottles have the exact same setup except the one on the left has beer inside. You can see that the color map takes on the color of the beer. If it's acceptable to visualize your bottle without beer in it then you can use this method but be aware that you must render with a white background for the color map to appear correctly. Of course you can render with transparency and place the bottles on your own background in photoshop.

OR

2. You can model the bottle's label as a separate surface and similar to above apply the label as a color map and water droplets as a bump. Since you'll want the droplets to align between the bottle and label I suggest setting up the bottle first then apply an unlinked copy of the material to the label. now you can change the material type and the droplets will remain in place - make sure sync is unchecked when applying your color map.

We are looking into adding textures and materials to labels for KeyShot 6 which will make this process much easier and straightforward.

We are also looking into adding normal projection for textures and improved cylindrical mapping in KeyShot 6.

Best regards,
Rex

[XD1]

jamesp,

At the moment there are two ways you can go about this:

1. If you're using the dielectric material for the bottle you can apply the label as a color map and the water drops as a bump map. The problem here is that the color map will then be "transparent" and will only work in certain circumstances. In the attached image, the two bottles have the exact same setup except the one on the left has beer inside. You can see that the color map takes on the color of the beer. If it's acceptable to visualize your bottle without beer in it then you can use this method but be aware that you must render with a white background for the color map to appear correctly. Of course you can render with transparency and place the bottles on your own background in photoshop.

OR

2. You can model the bottle's label as a separate surface and similar to above apply the label as a color map and water droplets as a bump. Since you'll want the droplets to align between the bottle and label I suggest setting up the bottle first then apply an unlinked copy of the material to the label. now you can change the material type and the droplets will remain in place - make sure sync is unchecked when applying your color map.

We are looking into adding textures and materials to labels for KeyShot 6 which will make this process much easier and straightforward.

We are also looking into adding normal projection for textures and improved cylindrical mapping in KeyShot 6.

Best regards,
Rex

Hey thanks for the input. Why does the left one have the transparent look because the beer is on and not hidden? So right now I'm using solid glass. Why doesn't it have color map like glass or dielectric? Also seeing as my scene was not facing forward I think due to the import. Not sure about that. I'm having a hard time putting the label back in the same place. I think the z plane would work since normal isn't an option but I have to rotate my scene as it seems the z plane is not based on the coordinates legend but off of each model geometry. Am I correct? For some reason they seem rotated.

Also doing this I won't be able to put both bottle label and top label on. Unless they are spaced properly in a png file and it wraps it properly with the z plane so both labels can look as though the water is over top.

When does 6 come out?

[Rex]

jamesp,

To be honest, I'm not sure whey the texture doesn't appear transparent on the bottle with no internal geo. I'd expect that the back side of the bottle would act just like the beer. Must be something to do with the refraction caused by the internals.

Solid Glass is a stripped down version of Dielectric that when originally created did not have a color map due to physical accuracy; however, there are clearly instances when this would be useful so we are extending these capabilities for this and other materials in KeyShot 6, which should be available around Summer 2015.

You are correct that the planar mapping types are based on the models' local coordinate space. We are also looking into this.

Thank you,
Rex

[XD1]

jamesp,

To be honest, I'm not sure whey the texture doesn't appear transparent on the bottle with no internal geo. I'd expect that the back side of the bottle would act just like the beer. Must be something to do with the refraction caused by the internals.

Solid Glass is a stripped down version of Dielectric that when originally created did not have a color map due to physical accuracy; however, there are clearly instances when this would be useful so we are extending these capabilities for this and other materials in KeyShot 6, which should be available around Summer 2015.

You are correct that the planar mapping types are based on the models' local coordinate space. We are also looking into this.

Thank you,
Rex

Hey Rex
One last one. Lets see if you can solve this one. So how do I go about getting a label to be covered with the bump map drops and have a specular refraction? I didn't realize labels didn't reflect until turning this to white and playing with the refection. So how could this be done in this example? As we are using a texture for a label to recieve the bump map. How do we can reflection over the label what would happen in the light on a real one?

Is this doable or is this a you can't have your cake and eat it too? Also why all these work arounds? You mention adding these things in 6. How weren't these things noticed in 3 etc. and already incorporated? I assume other rendering programs have had these options etc. for a while now...

[XD1]

It looks at though your label does what I ask for. I didn't use dielectric for my label. Couldn't get right bottle color with transmission out etc. Glass has all texture options but I guess if I want the beer in it again can't do it? I ended up making a surface for my label. I made it silver or chrome and I used just black line work to make my label. See attached to get the drops over top but now there really isn't any reflection where there should be lighting up the black crown and skull etc.

[guest84672]

Make sure to change the specular color for the label to white and then control the reflectivity by increasing the refraction index.

[XD1]

Make sure to change the specular color for the label to white and then control the reflectivity by increasing the refraction index.

Doesn't work using rex's process of using a texture to have the drops show up over top!!!

[Rex]

James,

The black diffuse map will pick up a bit of light on the metal material but the specular will not be as strong as you would see if applied as a label. Perhaps you can duplicate the label geometry and change to a plastic material, use the black linework as an opacity map and keep the bump of the water drops? You may have to offset the geo a bit so there's no z-fighting. Man, seems like a lot of work-arounds for a straightforward task. Hopefully KS6 should simplify this!

Rex

[XD1]

Yeah I hope the new version fixes all of this. Even the intersecting glass and liquid work arounds.
I feel like other rendering programs could do all these things for years now...

[evilmaul]

I agree, hopefully a lot of the current shading/texturing limitations with KS will end soon with KS6