Grainy render ?

zooropa · April 01, 2018, 04:09:34 AM

As you can see the backdrop ramp looks a little bit grainy. I am using a texture (paper) from Poliigon.
The shadow quality is 5 (render settings) and the material samples 24.

The render scenes at the moment of the image uploaded was 150 samples and 54 min

There are also darker stripes on the back of the ramp if you check.

Thanks in advance .

Edit: Sorry the samples for the paper are 16

Here a screenshot with 469 samples

zooropa · April 02, 2018, 06:06:57 AM

1200 Samples aprox in 1 hour 6FPS. This is a sphere from KS.

I am not understanding what is causing such a slow performance. I am also not convinced with the quality of the shadow.
The sphere looks a little bit floating.

Regards

Find scene attached

If anyone could check the scene will help a lot

I think so .

Will Gibbons · April 02, 2018, 08:00:16 AM

Hi Zooropa,

If you save as a .ksp, when we download the file, your environment and textures won't be missing (it's hard to assess when there's missing assets).
The main reason your rendering is slow is because you're rendering NURBS and not triangles.
Your shadow quality is turned way up as well... that's going to slow things down.
The actual appearance of your shadow will be affected by your environment (which I could not see because it wasn't included in the .bip file)

Hope that helps. I'd recommend uploading it again as a .ksp so it'll be easier to assess.

zooropa · April 03, 2018, 02:34:09 AM

Quote from: Will Gibbons on April 02, 2018, 08:00:16 AM
Hi Zooropa,

If you save as a .ksp, when we download the file, your environment and textures won't be missing (it's hard to assess when there's missing assets).
The main reason your rendering is slow is because you're rendering NURBS and not triangles.
Your shadow quality is turned way up as well... that's going to slow things down.
The actual appearance of your shadow will be affected by your environment (which I could not see because it wasn't included in the .bip file)

Hope that helps. I'd recommend uploading it again as a .ksp so it'll be easier to assess.

Will if you check the sphere is from KS. Not using nurbs now in my test scene. Ill send it now the complete scene via message.

Thanks so much for helping me !

Regards!

mattjgerard · April 03, 2018, 08:30:03 AM

So, interior mode shows fantastic results in the shadows after only about 2 min. Its running at about 15 fps on my machien ad after 120 seconds it reaches about 100 samples . I reduced the size of the region window and at about 200 samples, the shadows were buttery smooth, no noise, perfect gradients.

I also cranked down the number of GI bounces, as there aren't any highly reflective surfaces in the scene, as well as the ray bounces, reduced that to 2, and didn't seem to affect the image, but the FPS jumped up a bit.

Now, I understand that those settings might not hold up with other objects in the scene, but just using your ball setup, making those tweaks seemed to get some good results.

I tried the new product mode as well, but as with the other product mode, even though my fps went up to 149, it took even longer to resolve a smooth noise-free shadow, so I think your solution is to use interior mode.

zooropa · April 04, 2018, 12:22:19 AM

Quote from: mattjgerard on April 03, 2018, 08:30:03 AM
So, interior mode shows fantastic results in the shadows after only about 2 min. Its running at about 15 fps on my machien ad after 120 seconds it reaches about 100 samples . I reduced the size of the region window and at about 200 samples, the shadows were buttery smooth, no noise, perfect gradients.

I also cranked down the number of GI bounces, as there aren't any highly reflective surfaces in the scene, as well as the ray bounces, reduced that to 2, and didn't seem to affect the image, but the FPS jumped up a bit.

Now, I understand that those settings might not hold up with other objects in the scene, but just using your ball setup, making those tweaks seemed to get some good results.

I tried the new product mode as well, but as with the other product mode, even though my fps went up to 149, it took even longer to resolve a smooth noise-free shadow, so I think your solution is to use interior mode.

Thanks I will try with interior mode to see if it changes also with you other recommendations. Today and will return to show.

This is strange...but this came after 18 hs rendering...the percentage of completed was just at eleven...I do not understand nothing with this render anymore:

Check the attachment.

DriesV · April 04, 2018, 12:49:38 AM

Please note that the Shadow Quality in the Lighting tab only affects shadows on the default Ground or a Ground Plane object. If a plane with any other material (Plastic, Advanced...) is used as a ground plane, then the Shadow Quality will make no difference. This applies to the real-time view, Maximum Time and Samples rendering.

The "wirly torus" scene is still impossible to troubleshoot. Too many variables at play.

Is it possible for you to share the scene as a .ksp?
You can send data securely via our WeTransfer. Send to dries-at-luxion-dot-com.

Dries

zooropa · April 04, 2018, 02:04:25 AM

Quote from: DriesV on April 04, 2018, 12:49:38 AM
Please note that the Shadow Quality in the Lighting tab only affects shadows on the default Ground or a Ground Plane object. If a plane with any other material (Plastic, Advanced...) is used as a ground plane, then the Shadow Quality will make no difference. This applies to the real-time view, Maximum Time and Samples rendering.

The "wirly torus" scene is still impossible to troubleshoot. Too many variables at play.

Is it possible for you to share the scene as a .ksp?
You can send data securely via our WeTransfer. Send to dries-at-luxion-dot-com.

Dries

Ok Dries did not know this about the shadow. It means any change I input there will not make any effect? So should I lower it to 1 or just do not pay attention cause It is not running in my scene ? A mail will arrive soon to your mailbox

Thanks!!! a lot

zooropa · April 04, 2018, 02:43:02 AM

Quote from: mattjgerard on April 03, 2018, 08:30:03 AM
So, interior mode shows fantastic results in the shadows after only about 2 min. Its running at about 15 fps on my machien ad after 120 seconds it reaches about 100 samples . I reduced the size of the region window and at about 200 samples, the shadows were buttery smooth, no noise, perfect gradients.

I also cranked down the number of GI bounces, as there aren't any highly reflective surfaces in the scene, as well as the ray bounces, reduced that to 2, and didn't seem to affect the image, but the FPS jumped up a bit.

Now, I understand that those settings might not hold up with other objects in the scene, but just using your ball setup, making those tweaks seemed to get some good results.

I tried the new product mode as well, but as with the other product mode, even though my fps went up to 149, it took even longer to resolve a smooth noise-free shadow, so I think your solution is to use interior mode.

Thanks Matt I am trying with interior mode now. Just for the sake of the shadow quality...unfortunately the times look like they are going to be always super super high. 18 hs for 140 samples at 2k render.

So far...20 samples in hour and half and looks like the attachment. I guess the preliminar shadows are going to be cleaner with time. I think in product mode they look a little bit less scary at the beginning. I guess I will need to test it 18 hs with interior mode.

to realistically compare the shadows.

I am starting to think that Rhino to KS is not the best workflow in terms of times. I guess that model in a polygonal software will be much much faster.

DriesV · April 04, 2018, 05:41:42 AM

Thank you for sending the scene.
The model is indeed quite sluggish to render. We are having a look.

You don't happen to have the possibility to create a single closed mesh of this model, do you? That would probably be much faster.

Dries

zooropa · April 04, 2018, 09:37:08 AM

The problem is that if it was a single solid i can not assign different materials to the strips.

Or can I ? That is the reason i did it like that.

Thanks!

DMerz III · April 04, 2018, 11:39:15 AM

What is the 'size' of your environment and 'ground' in the environment tab?

Sometimes, by default the size of those two settings are waaaay larger than needed, and cranking those down to something more appropriate for the frame/object reduces the rendering of the ground by quite a bit.

zooropa · April 05, 2018, 04:57:08 AM

Quote from: DMerz III on April 04, 2018, 11:39:15 AM
What is the 'size' of your environment and 'ground' in the environment tab?

Sometimes, by default the size of those two settings are waaaay larger than needed, and cranking those down to something more appropriate for the frame/object reduces the rendering of the ground by quite a bit.

Not using ground. I am using a ramp.

The enviroment is 4142mm

DriesV · April 05, 2018, 05:06:14 AM

We have looked into this model. It is slow, because it is rather extreme with many complex overlapping parts.
There is not much we can do at this point to make it faster.

Dries

zooropa · April 05, 2018, 05:26:37 AM

Quote from: DriesV on April 05, 2018, 05:06:14 AM
We have looked into this model. It is slow, because it is rather extreme with many complex overlapping parts.
There is not much we can do at this point to make it faster.

Dries

No worries, I appreciate the help. I am not sure about the "overlapping" nothing should be overlapping rather meeting in a tangent way.