Import scale preset/controls please

[idesignstuff]

Guys,

I'm using KS3.1, and started with KS1. I work with products. Many of us do who use your software. Our products are pretty much always in the same units of scale.
We have a team of designers here, and have shared some shaders for common materials we all use. The fact that every model comes in at a different scale means that the textures always need some adjustment to look "right" in whatever random scale KS3.1 is using.

This is even more of a problem when I want to assemble multiple bip's together or merge together components from different models, i.e., model lineup renderings.
These real world products all start out in a common scale with common units of measure, then live in a common scale, so why does this have to be so painful for us in the KS world? This needs to be a priority. I'm guessing everyone who uses KS for work has a problem with this.

The lighting is much better with 3/3.1 vs. 2, and it can be a joy to use sometimes, but it can also be very painful.

Fix please!

Thanks

[m2tts]

Everyone knows how I feel about this.

+1 x10 x10 x10 x10.......

[JeffM]

To make this less painful you basically need to start your projects with a baseline model.

I suggest making a cube in your modeling software that is sized somewhere around the average dimensions of your products. If you make mice and keyboards, for example, make a cube that is bigger than a mouse and smaller than a keyboard.

Import this cube into the default empty scene and save out a bip.

When you want to start a project with a real product, open KeyShot, then open that cube bip that you created.

Now, import the new model and in the import settings menu:

Disable "add to scene" (this clears out the cube)
Enable "From previous import" under "Coordinates" (this makes sure the new model uses the same scale values as the cube)

[PhilippeV8]

Jeff... I've been doing that for quite some time but still I bump into this issue when removing parts to update them with new ones .. and as soon as the file is "infected", there's no way back.
This is also the case if you want to dress up your scene by importing parts from the sketchup library or such ... they are often off scale and mess up things if you want to import another self-made part or item later on.  Even if you import those sketchup parts in a separate bip and resize them there, then import the bip ... I've tried about everything ..

[m2tts]

Jeff,

Less painfull is behavior that we're already used to, and that is dealing with real world units. Even if we take your suggestion and have a generic cube, the transform dialog numbers are still meaningless as there is no relation between those numbers and the real world. Look at any cad software out there and one of the most basic document properties is choosing what units you wish to work in. KeyShot is actually NOT making an easier and more intuitive piece of software by ignoring this basic parameter of 3D tools.

[KeyShot]

This is something we definitely want to address. We did implement a method that would basically import the model in the original coordinates, but we found it too hard to use. One issue with this approach is that the data can end up anywhere, and it can be hard to find the model. Another issue is that some CAD systems use miliimeters while others use meters or inches, and several formats do not have any scale information at all. I hope we can develop an easy to use and robust approach for KeyShot 3.2 or 4.x

Currently, you can see the scale factor that is applied to the data in the transform information in the scene tree. You can reset the scale  to 1 to get the model back to its original size. You can also adjust the translation and rotation to 0
to get the model back to its original position.

-- Henrik

[jhiker]

To make this less painful you basically need to start your projects with a baseline model.

I suggest making a cube in your modeling software that is sized somewhere around the average dimensions of your products. If you make mice and keyboards, for example, make a cube that is bigger than a mouse and smaller than a keyboard.

Import this cube into the default empty scene and save out a bip.

When you want to start a project with a real product, open KeyShot, then open that cube bip that you created.

Now, import the new model and in the import settings menu:

Disable "add to scene" (this clears out the cube)
Enable "From previous import" under "Coordinates" (this makes sure the new model uses the same scale values as the cube)

This sounds like a bit of a bodge to me.
My problems arise when I 'import' a scene into an existing scene, i.e. merging two engineering assemblies together.
Even though the two separate assemblies often contain the same identical parts (perhaps rearranged differently) they can come in at wildly different scales!
Meanwhile the 'scene' tab shows both assemblies at Scale =1
I'd love a fix for this.

[fario]

verry interessant topic!

Many thanks.

Antoine

[m2tts]

Currently, you can see the scale factor that is applied to the data in the transform information in the scene tree. You can reset the scale  to 1 to get the model back to its original size. You can also adjust the translation and rotation to 0
to get the model back to its original position.

-- Henrik

Henrik, the suggestion to set the scale back to 1 on imported parts is meaningless if we don't know what units were used to import the object in the first place!.

It also doesn't work; after scaling things to 1.00 and then importing other things and scale them to 1.00 they come in the same for awhile, but then things get screwy because that number change to 1.00 does not get remembered. Even though the objects don't change size, the scale number in the dialog reverts back to what the model was originally imported to. Changing that number to 1.00 again blows the model up to burst the environment bubble again; leaving the other models that were blown up to 1.00 tiny in comparison and now understandable relations are lost again.

There is a bigger issue than just trying to get things scaled relative to each other; it's remembering what's already happened. The whole transform system is broken.

When I import a model for the first time it seems rather arbitrary the scale number that gets assigned. For objects that are the size of pencil sharpeners they come in at small scales; like .044; while larger objects are coming in at scales like .014. What scale does a car come in? Sounds like things should scale exactly the opposite: All imports come in at scale = 1.00 while Keyshot scales the environment to fit. And make those numbers in the transform, environment, and camera tabs mean something useful. It would be nice to know if I'm moving my object by 1mm or not. Heck, I don't care if it's mm, centimeters or meters, so long as I know what units those transform numbers mean.

Also don't understand why it's so hard to figure out what units something is in. CAD programs have this figured out and sounds like it should be bundled into whatever importer gets used for a vendors file type. SW and Pro-E will tell in the file headers what units are being used. What programs these days don't use specific units?

[jjeconomaki]

+100

[KeyShot]

Thanks for the feedback. It seems like two issues need to be addressed. First, it sounds like there is a bug in the existing model transform tool (it should remember the scale). We will investigate this. Secondly, we will revisit the concept of importing models in their original scale and position. To test this later concept. I have attached an empty bip file (keep_size.bip). If you open this file before you import your geometry and check 'Coordinates' -> 'From Previous Import' then the geometry will be imported with the scale untouched. Furthermore, if you uncheck 'Center' and 'Snap to ground' then it will be in the original location as well. You can also check 'Y' as the up vector and it will keep the original orientation as well. Let us know if this is useful?

Thanks,

Henrik

[m2tts]

Henrik, the bip won't open: "keep_size.bip is broken and contains invalid data."

[KeyShot]

Oops. You are right. I just uploaded a new file. Btw. the next release of KeyShot (coming in the next couple of days) will be able to read the other file I posted.

[m2tts]

File opens; model does not import to scale = 1.00. Scale is 0.016 for a model of a first gen iPad.

[KeyShot]

What kind of dataformat did you import?