Labels - Cylindrical Mapping Not Working?

hahaderekface · November 19, 2013, 01:27:25 PM

I've adjusted every setting, watched and re-watched the tutorial, and even tried different labels - any label I apply with cylindrical mapping (onto a cylindrical surface) looks completely screwed up.

I'm rocking version 4.2.35, in case anyone was wondering, and the model is exported from SolidWorks 2013.

The label used below is the default Keyshot label, and the cylinder is 2" diameter and 4" tall.

Anyone else having this issue?

Chad Holton · November 19, 2013, 02:55:55 PM

I just tried it out real quick with a cylinder (in the KeyShot 4/Models folder) and it's working okay on my end. Try it out with that exact model. If you're having trouble, I'll upload a BIP with a label applied, if you think it will help. Let me know how it goes.

hahaderekface · November 19, 2013, 04:31:31 PM

Quote from: Chad Holton on November 19, 2013, 02:55:55 PM
I just tried it out real quick with a cylinder (in the KeyShot 4/Models folder) and it's working okay on my end. Try it out with that exact model. If you're having trouble, I'll upload a BIP with a label applied, if you think it will help. Let me know how it goes.

Yeah, if you could share a working BIP I'd really appreciate it. Thanks!

Speedster · November 19, 2013, 05:36:08 PM

I've not been able to apply a label with cylindrical mapping either, getting exactly the same results. 4.2.35.

And now, using Normal Mapping, I have to use Depth at a really high setting to get it all on, which then distorts the label. I've been able to tweak it with X and Y scaling, however. But it's not like earlier releases.

Bill G

Chad Holton · November 20, 2013, 05:24:11 AM

Here's what I ended up with (attached).
What I did:
Imported stock cylinder (from Models folder)
Double-clicked on objects surface
Added a label (chose a stock texture that was repeatable to show how it wraps around and meets)
Changed to cylindrical mapping
Adjust the X & Y scale values to fit

Speedster · November 20, 2013, 05:57:43 AM

My issue is with a single label, not a repeat pattern. Below is a classic example that I ran into yesterday for a client. The handle is a cone with a slight radius, not a straight cylinder.

Top: As it should be, but not quite on the surface as it appears as a pad print. Normal projection, high depth setting and a lot of X-Y tweaking.

Next: New label applied, but switched to Cylindrical, with no other changes.

Next: Tweaks to X-Y and scale.

Next: More tweaks to X-Y and scale.

No possible way to use cylindrical mapping, which is a problem as almost everything I do looks like this. Never a problem back in KS2 and 3.

Bill G

Chad Holton · November 20, 2013, 06:16:50 AM

Hi Bill,

I just used a repeatable friendly texture to show how it wraps and doesn't clip (it wasn't actually repeated). Here's a screenshot with a stock decal applied on top of it. It wraps around the object with no problem.

Thanks for sharing some screenshots - Would you be able to share a BIP and a STEP of the object (or a shape similar), so I can test? I wondering if it's some kind of normals issue from SW or something of that nature... $:-\$

Thanks,
Chad

hahaderekface · November 20, 2013, 07:00:17 AM

I think I've figured it out, although I must say this still seems like a bug or terrible lack of functionality.

In the first attached image (based off the provided BIP) I tried swapping out the label, since it appeared to open correctly. The label came in incredibly distorted. On a hunch, I messed with the scale and found that for the image to look correct I had to adjust my scale strangely.

X=.1
Y= 1.

10:1 to get the proportions correct. This makes little sense to me.

So I decided to try another label (the included Keyshot/Luxion) at 10:1 scale. Completely illegible. I almost closed Keyshot in frustration, but thought better of it. How about 100:1 scale, maybe that will work? And what do you know, it did.

X=.01
Y=1.

Now, I know for a fact that my model and label should be spot on, 1:1 scale. I even tried importing it multiple ways (adjusting scale). You know what ended up being the right "scale" for my label on my model?

X=.01
Y=.601

Yes, that .001 mattered. And even then the label wasn't on straight, because the mapping tool occasionally comes in off kilter (eyeballing it I'd guess about 5 degrees).

So I tried importing it again, this time using "Snap to Ground" for Location. That was the closest thing to being correct (didn't even have to adjust the cylinder mapping).

X=1
Y=3

-----

TL;DR - While I have figured out a way to get the label to work, it was a very un-intuitive (and quite frankly, incorrect) process. I hope my details (and the feedback from the other posters) provide some insight to Keyshot for improving their product, and help anyone else that might be struggling in the same way.

richardfunnell · November 20, 2013, 07:05:45 AM

One tip I can give is to always work with a 1:1 ratio image for your label, even if it's empty space using an alpha channel. That makes it a little easier for adjusting X & Y values, since you're now working with a proportional image.
This certainly doesn't fix the issues you're seeing below, but it may help a little.

hahaderekface · November 20, 2013, 07:51:19 AM

Quote from: richardfunnell on November 20, 2013, 07:05:45 AM
One tip I can give is to always work with a 1:1 ratio image for your label, even if it's empty space using an alpha channel. That makes it a little easier for adjusting X & Y values, since you're now working with a proportional image.
This certainly doesn't fix the issues you're seeing below, but it may help a little.

Could you expound a bit upon this, please? I'm not sure I'm familiar enough with alpha channels and how they relate to scale in Keyshot.

Chad Holton · November 20, 2013, 08:34:27 AM

What Richard is referring too, I believe, is that even though a label may look square it may not be due to the transparent areas. You will just need to check out the properties of the label to find this out. Also, different textures/labels are going to be different pixel sizes. So, as an example, if you switch from a 100x100 (pixel size) label to a 3000x3000 label, you'll be doing some major scaling.

hahaderekface · November 20, 2013, 09:55:31 AM

Quote from: Chad Holton on November 20, 2013, 08:34:27 AM
What Richard is referring too, I believe, is that even though a label may look square it may not be due to the transparent areas. You will just need to check out the properties of the label to find this out. Also, different textures/labels are going to be different pixel sizes. So, as an example, if you switch from a 100x100 (pixel size) label to a 3000x3000 label, you'll be doing some major scaling.

If I'm understanding you correctly, does this mean ideally we want to use labels that are always square? This make some sense to me, although it means another step in the design process, especially if I haven't generated the graphics myself. For example, if I have a label that's 400p wide and 100p tall, I'll have to edit it to have 150p of transparent space top and bottom to make it square, or fiddle with the scaling in Keyshot. Does this assumption sound correct?

I guess I'm just used to the SolidWorks method of applying labels, and ideally would like it to just be drag and drop, with me being able to select geometry edges and surfaces to guide the mapping, rather than ball-parking it (as it seems to be now).

Chad Holton · November 20, 2013, 01:27:53 PM

It's up to you if you want to use that process, it's definitely not required - Richard was just giving you a tip that he may use.

Well, I'm not familiar with texturing/label placement in SW.. but you're just creating renderings in the end, how accurate do you need the labels placed? Maybe try looking straight on at the surface along with orthographic mode, when applying the label.

hahaderekface · November 20, 2013, 02:34:58 PM

Quote from: Chad Holton on November 20, 2013, 01:27:53 PM
It's up to you if you want to use that process, it's definitely not required - Richard was just giving you a tip that he may use.

Well, I'm not familiar with texturing/label placement in SW.. but you're just creating renderings in the end, how accurate do you need the labels placed? Maybe try looking straight on at the surface along with orthographic mode, when applying the label.

In the project I'm currently working on, one of the parts is the label (it's die cut, rolled, and keyed into position with a tab). I'd like that to be fairly accurate, since it has transparency that reveals both an LED and a user-control scale (screw driven part) behind it.

And we're talking about renderings here - there's no reason they shouldn't be "perfect".

My primary issue is with the scaling. It sounds like I cannot be sure the proportions will be imported correctly, and that I may have to go through a lengthy trial-and-error process, when I know with 100% certainty that the graphics file is pixel perfect.

In SolidWorks you can fit the label (or "decal" as they call it) to the surface you select (with a fixed aspect ratio, vertically, horizontally, or both). If that feature were in Keyshot it would solve 90% of my problem with labels. From there I could make minor tweaks when needed.

Let me also say this - Keyshot is freaking awesome. While the labeling problem is an annoyance there are many, many things about Keyshot and the quality of the output that I'd readily recommend (especially over PhotoVew 360) to just about anyone. Still, being good doesn't mean they can't be better. That's the nature of life, and certainly business.

fletch1971 · November 20, 2013, 04:26:29 PM

i think its been mentioned in other threads, a useful tool would be to be able to have a button that would scale the image to fit the object. there are a number of other rendering packages that do this.